Italia BB to be Laid Down in 1913

[ctwaterman]

Giulio Cesare, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,466 t light; 27,224 t standard; 28,156 t normal; 28,902 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   579.74 ft / 577.43 ft x 97.60 ft x 30.68 ft (normal load)
   176.71 m / 176.00 m x 29.75 m  x 9.35 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      18 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 3.01" / 76.4 mm guns in single mounts, 13.61lbs / 6.17kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.60lbs / 0.27kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,266 lbs / 7,378 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.8" / 325 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   202.07 ft / 61.59 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   5.12" / 130 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.76" / 70 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   29.69 ft / 9.05 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.9" / 354 mm   4.92" / 125 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.53" / 115 mm, Conning tower: 10.98" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,184 shp / 29,977 Kw = 22.01 kts
   Range 4,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,678 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1,086 - 1,412

Cost:
   £2.948 million / $11.791 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,873 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 10,780 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 3,520 tons, 12.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,136 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armament: 2,547 tons, 9.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,357 tons, 11.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,695 tons, 6.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,744 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,690 tons, 9.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,733 lbs / 14,848 Kg = 23.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 18.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.92 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.44 ft / 8.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Mid (40 %):      17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Stern:      17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.20 ft / 5.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,078 Square feet or 3,723 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 953 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250T Fire Control
50T  Long Range Wire Less
40T 40 X 508 MM Torpedoes or 20 X 508 MM Torps With New Torps

[Borys]

Mamma Mia!
Are you sure you have enough SUPERSTRUCTURE SPACE to fit those 18 127mm guns?

Bringing them down one deck or two should improve the poor stability rating.

The TDS is too thick.

The deck is also a tad too tick, I think ...

Borys

[Sachmle]

Ditto on what Borys said. Lower the 127s to deck level.

[Korpen]

The deck is also a tad too tick, I think ...

Hm, i it is a single deck, then yes, far to thick. But if it it is split in two or three it might be motivated (such as a 25mm weather deck, 30 on top of the main belt and a main belt of 6cm at the waterline).

[P3D]

Weak barbette and turret side armor, minuscule range.

[Borys]

minuscule range.

If the battleline is intended for the Med, then it could be acceptable.
Borys

[ctwaterman]

The Short Range is because Its intend use is exactly as Borys predicted I dont need a BB to operate outside of the Med at the Moment.  In addition because it will be operating in the Med with the inherent TB and DD problems associated I wanted lots and lots of 3" and 5" guns where choppy weather wouldnt render them inoperable.  I will work on increasing the armor on the 5" Guns and simply increasing my range might also increase my stability :)  I will probably thin out the TDS and Deck Armor to achieve this new design to follow. 

[ctwaterman]

Giulio Cesare, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,071 t light; 26,018 t standard; 28,403 t normal; 30,311 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   579.74 ft / 577.43 ft x 97.60 ft x 30.68 ft (normal load)
   176.71 m / 176.00 m x 29.75 m  x 9.35 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      18 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 3.01" / 76.4 mm guns in single mounts, 13.61lbs / 6.17kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.60lbs / 0.27kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,266 lbs / 7,378 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.8" / 325 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   202.07 ft / 61.59 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   5.12" / 130 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.17" / 55 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   29.69 ft / 9.05 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.9" / 354 mm   4.92" / 125 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm            -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 10.98" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,474 shp / 30,193 Kw = 22.01 kts
   Range 6,800nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,293 tons (40% coal)

Complement:
   1,093 - 1,422

Cost:
   £2.891 million / $11.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,873 tons, 6.6 %
   Armour: 9,434 tons, 33.2 %
      - Belts: 3,521 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 893 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 2,747 tons, 9.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,053 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,675 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,714 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,332 tons, 15.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 375 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,087 lbs / 15,008 Kg = 24.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.92 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.44 ft / 8.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Mid (40 %):      17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Stern:      17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.20 ft / 5.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,267 Square feet or 3,741 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 194 lbs/sq ft or 946 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250T Fire Control
50T  Long Range Wire Less
40T 40 X 508 MM Torpedoes or 20 X 508 MM Torps With New Torps

[Borys]

To protect the secondaries from seaway it is enough not to mark ANYTHING. That places them on the weather deck, high enough.
Try folling around with the MG turrets - maybe face 13", and barbette 12"?
Borys

[ctwaterman]

With lots of effective criticism in PM from Sam here she is again.

Giulio Cesare, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,075 t light; 26,762 t standard; 29,193 t normal; 31,139 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   579.74 ft / 577.43 ft x 97.60 ft x 30.68 ft (normal load)
   176.71 m / 176.00 m x 29.75 m  x 9.35 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      18 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,264 lbs / 7,377 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.8" / 325 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   202.07 ft / 61.59 m   11.52 ft / 3.51 m
   Upper:   5.12" / 130 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.17" / 55 mm   375.33 ft / 114.40 m   29.69 ft / 9.05 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.9" / 354 mm   7.87" / 200 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   2.99" / 76 mm         -         1.02" / 26 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 10.98" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 41,403 shp / 30,887 Kw = 22.01 kts
   Range 6,800nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,377 tons (40% coal)

Complement:
   1,116 - 1,451

Cost:
   £2.935 million / $11.742 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,873 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 9,922 tons, 34.0 %
      - Belts: 3,526 tons, 12.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 893 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armament: 3,195 tons, 10.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,084 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 224 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,713 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,092 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,118 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 475 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,335 lbs / 16,028 Kg = 25.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 18.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.591
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.92 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.44 ft / 8.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.77 ft / 6.33 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.77 ft / 6.33 m (17.49 ft / 5.33 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Stern:      17.49 ft / 5.33 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.25 ft / 5.87 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,875 Square feet or 3,797 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 959 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.71
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250T Fire Control
50T  Long Range Wire Less
40T 40 X 508 MM Torpedoes or 20 X 508 MM Torps With New Torps
100T Growth and Crew Comfort

[Korpen]

With lots of effective criticism in PM from Sam here she is again.

Giulio Cesare, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

What sort of disposition of the deck armour is imagined? Single deck or multiples?

[ctwaterman]

Multipule Layered Deck its still a little early for the Single Solid Deck... :)  Save that for a refit