Kingdom tiny ships

[Guinness]

Seems like we see two different missions on the same hull. I suspect this is a case of one not being able to have everything on ~200 tons...

[Guinness]

Throwing the CSA's hat into the ring. I worked long and hard on the design the CSA sold the Habsbergs, but ultimately scrapped it and did my own:

CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat, CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   200 t light; 206 t standard; 236 t normal; 259 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   210.00 ft / 204.00 ft x 17.00 ft x 5.53 ft (normal load)
   64.01 m / 62.18 m x 5.18 m  x 1.68 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 10 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 7,200 shp / 5,371 Kw = 27.87 kts
   Range 1,330nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 53 tons

Complement:
   29 - 39

Cost:
   £0.029 million / $0.118 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 126 tons, 53.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 67 tons, 28.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 35 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57 lbs / 26 Kg = 2.7 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 85
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.16 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.70 ft / 3.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   8.70 ft / 2.65 m
      - Mid (50 %):      6.70 ft / 2.04 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   5.70 ft / 1.74 m
      - Stern:      5.70 ft / 1.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.32 ft / 2.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 183.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,068 Square feet or 192 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 39 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 16 lbs/sq ft or 79 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights: 3 torpedoes, 1 ton reserve

Range at max speed: 210 nm, 7.5 hours

[Sachmle]

Ah, what the hell. Here's mine. She's not as small as the rest, but has 1.00 seakeeping, 70% stability, and 1.19 steadiness. Now she can actually go outside Rio de la Plata..

P-200 Class, NUS Patrolboat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   260 t light; 266 t standard; 306 t normal; 338 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   216.00 ft / 213.00 ft x 17.75 ft x 7.00 ft (normal load)
   65.84 m / 64.92 m x 5.41 m  x 2.13 m

Armament:
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 5 lbs / 2 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   3 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 1 shaft, 8,329 shp / 6,214 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 1550nm at 15.00 kts
   Range 249nm at 28.00 kts = 8.89 hrs at top speed
   Bunker at max displacement = 71 tons

Complement:
   36 - 47

Cost:
   £0.036 million / $0.143 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 166 tons, 54.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 90 tons, 29.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 46 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.0 %
        - 3 18" torpedoes
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     81 lbs / 37 Kg = 20.2 x 2.0 " / 51 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.02 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m (7.00 ft / 2.13 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.63 ft / 2.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,208 Square feet or 205 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 46 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 85 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.11
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[P3D]

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/torpedoboats/tb1915/tech.html

[Borys]

Guiness - your trpedo boat seems to have its torpedos missing :)
And I'd increase the ammo stowage - that gun can go through it's supply in 8 minutes - although that's not very likely.

The NUSA boat is interesting, although in my eyes a warship MUST have two props.

Fighting enemy light - you have a point, Korpen. But 750-1000 tonnes destroyers are capital ships to those small fry anyway. Three inch is the limit, IMO, for such sall hulls.
Borys

[Borys]

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/torpedoboats/tb1915/tech.html

Please note that the site appears to give full load displacement.
Borys

[Guinness]

A couple of more cracks at this. Little tiny ships are fun!

First is basically the one posted above, minus a little more freeboard, and plus a little more ammo. Fixed the lack of a torpedo listing too. The second has one less Tube, but one more 3.5" gun.

I'm still partial to the 1 gun version, but I can see the argument for the 2 gun version, or even a mix of the two.

CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat, CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   200 t light; 206 t standard; 236 t normal; 259 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   210.00 ft / 204.00 ft x 17.00 ft x 5.53 ft (normal load)
   64.01 m / 62.18 m x 5.18 m  x 1.68 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 21 lbs / 10 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 160
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 7,200 shp / 5,371 Kw = 27.87 kts
   Range 1,330nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 53 tons

Complement:
   29 - 39

Cost:
   £0.029 million / $0.118 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 126 tons, 53.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 67 tons, 28.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 36 tons, 15.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54 lbs / 24 Kg = 2.5 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.71

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 83
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.16 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.70 ft / 3.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   8.70 ft / 2.65 m
      - Mid (50 %):      6.50 ft / 1.98 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   5.70 ft / 1.74 m
      - Stern:      5.70 ft / 1.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.25 ft / 2.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 183.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 42.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,068 Square feet or 192 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 39 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 16 lbs/sq ft or 79 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights: 3 torpedoes, 1 ton reserve

Range at max speed: 210 nm, 7.5 hours

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat 2 guns, CSA Coastal Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   200 t light; 207 t standard; 237 t normal; 260 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   209.99 ft / 204.00 ft x 17.00 ft x 5.56 ft (normal load)
   64.00 m / 62.18 m x 5.18 m  x 1.69 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns in single mounts, 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
   Weight of broadside 41 lbs / 19 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 7,200 shp / 5,371 Kw = 27.84 kts
   Range 1,330nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 53 tons

Complement:
   29 - 39

Cost:
   £0.031 million / $0.126 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 2.3 %
   Machinery: 123 tons, 51.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 69 tons, 29.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 37 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55 lbs / 25 Kg = 2.6 x 3.5 " / 89 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.71

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.28 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.16 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.67 ft / 3.56 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   8.67 ft / 2.64 m
      - Mid (50 %):      6.47 ft / 1.97 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   5.67 ft / 1.73 m
      - Stern:      5.67 ft / 1.73 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 58.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,068 Square feet or 192 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 38 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 81 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Misc Weights: 2 torpedoes, 1 ton reserve
Range at max speed: 210 nm, 7.5 hours

[Borys]

2nd ship has twin 90mm mount?

[Guinness]

trying to do too many things at once. I fixed it above.

[Korpen]

STB-X1, Netherlands Costal TB laid down 1912

Displacement:
   100 t light; 102 t standard; 117 t normal; 129 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   147,64 ft / 147,64 ft x 12,58 ft x 5,51 ft (normal load)
   45,00 m / 45,00 m x 3,83 m  x 1,68 m

Armament:
      2 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mount
     on centreline aft
      3 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 1 000
   2 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 500 shp / 2 611 Kw = 25,08 kts
   Range 1 700nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 26 tons

Complement:
   17 - 23

Cost:
   £0,013 million / $0,050 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 64 tons, 55,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 33 tons, 27,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 17 tons, 14,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 2,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25 lbs / 12 Kg = 247,0 x 0,6 " / 15 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 0,2 ft / 0,1 m
   Roll period: 10,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,77

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 12,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Forecastle (27 %):   9,19 ft / 2,80 m (4,92 ft / 1,50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      4,92 ft / 1,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   4,92 ft / 1,50 m
      - Stern:      4,92 ft / 1,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   6,14 ft / 1,87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 29,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 143 Square feet or 106 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 41 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 12 lbs/sq ft or 60 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,29
      - Overall: 0,58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Borys]

SMS Prischnitz, Habsburgs Port patrol vessel laid down 1913

Displacement:
   5 t light; 5 t standard; 5 t normal; 5 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   20,00 ft / 20,00 ft x 6,00 ft x 2,00 ft (normal load)
   6,10 m / 6,10 m x 1,83 m  x 0,61 m

Armament:
      1 - 0,25" / 6,4 mm guns in single mounts, 0,01lbs / 0,00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine gun in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 1 500

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 5 ihp / 4 Kw = 6,00 kts
   Range 30nm at 6,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 0 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 - 2

Cost:
   £0,000 million / $0,001 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 1 tons, 15,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 tons, 81,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 0 tons, 3,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 lbs / 4 Kg = 1 099,2 x 0,3 " / 6 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 3,10
   Metacentric height 0,4 ft / 0,1 m
   Roll period: 4,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,740
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3,33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 4,47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      0,00 ft / 0,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   0,00 ft / 0,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      0,00 ft / 0,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   0,00 ft / 0,00 m
      - Stern:      0,00 ft / 0,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0,0%
   Waterplane Area: 100 Square feet or 9 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 320%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 176 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 6,19
      - Longitudinal: 6,92
      - Overall: 6,26
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[Korpen]

SMS Prischnitz, Habsburgs Port patrol vessel laid down 1913

How does it stay afloat without a freebord? ;)
You after all got some exessive hull strenght to play with, so fixing it seems possible..

[Borys]

The crew is busy with the buckets ... :)

[ledeper]

Complement:
   1 - 2, ;D ;D WHO IS STEERING ;D ;D ???

[Korpen]

The crew is busy with the buckets ... :)

And should there not be two breach loading guns instead of a MG? After all manning a MG is trinky on your own, better give ´em a rifle each. ;)

About: STB-X1, range at top speed is 210nm, so about 8h at full speed. Missions much longer then that is not really possible du to a total lack of crew facilities (want to take a dump? use the railing).
But a combat radius of up to 100nm should be adequate for most mission for this kind of vessel.

Looking at historic ships in this size range, it seems possible that the ship could achieve speeds a few knots higher then indicated under good conditions.