More Habsburg battleships

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I am not likely to lay them down in 1914, but maybe 1915 ...

Now, the Kaiser wannabe - APQXY

SMS Kaiser, Habsburgs Schlachtiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25 402 t light; 27 014 t standard; 28 287 t normal; 29 307 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600,00 ft / 600,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 29,00 ft (normal load)
   182,88 m / 182,88 m x 30,48 m  x 8,84 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1 500,00lbs / 680,39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 500,00lbs / 680,39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      14 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16 427 lbs / 7 451 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   250,00 ft / 76,20 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 90% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   45,00 ft / 13,72 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 39 901 shp / 29 766 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 293 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 089 - 1 417

Cost:
   £3,278 million / $13,113 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 730 tons, 6,1%
   Armour: 10 647 tons, 37,6%
      - Belts: 4 745 tons, 16,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 3,1%
      - Armament: 2 619 tons, 9,3%
      - Armour Deck: 2 169 tons, 7,7%
      - Conning Tower: 240 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 1 667 tons, 5,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 958 tons, 38,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 886 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35 855 lbs / 16 264 Kg = 29,1 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,569
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Stern:      16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,48 ft / 5,02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,3%
   Waterplane Area: 42 627 Square feet or 3 960 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 950 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,45
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

The "Fast Battleship" - the classical APQX
SMS Fast and Furious, Habsburgs Schlachtiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28 398 t light; 30 105 t standard; 31 714 t normal; 33 001 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   625,00 ft / 625,00 ft x 103,00 ft x 28,50 ft (normal load)
   190,50 m / 190,50 m x 31,39 m  x 8,69 m

Armament:
      8 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17 308 lbs / 7 851 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   225,00 ft / 68,58 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,71 ft / 2,65 m
     Main Belt covers 98% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,5" / 343 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 70 520 shp / 52 608 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 897 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
   1 187 - 1 544

Cost:
   £3,787 million / $15,147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 863 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 11 708 tons, 36,9%
      - Belts: 5 653 tons, 17,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2,8%
      - Armament: 2 256 tons, 7,1%
      - Armour Deck: 2 625 tons, 8,3%
      - Conning Tower: 281 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 2 974 tons, 9,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 453 tons, 36,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 316 tons, 10,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36 841 lbs / 16 711 Kg = 21,8 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 6,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,605
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,83 ft / 8,48 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Stern:      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,52 ft / 5,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,4%
   Waterplane Area: 47 303 Square feet or 4 395 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 897 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,36
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

I disagree about your choice for APQX SpringSharp

Your armament APQX :
      8 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room


My Atahualpa APQY
Armament:
      4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships


Jef  ;)

[Guinness]

I think you want the fast one to have all it's turrets on the centerline.

Also, I've been working on my own slow vs. fast(er) comparison, and I think you might be well served to use about a couple of thousand more tons for protection. I'll post those ideas in a new thread.

Otherwise: I really like the Kaiser style layout. I can't personally bring myself to build wing turrets (it must be an American thing), but I think that's a neat ship.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Changing the turrets did not change much about the sim (improved survvability a bit) - of course if I build it I'd make the change to the file permament.

I think the FF is quite well protected, no?


Borys

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Sorry, changing the turrets DID cause changes.
Here is the reworked file.
The barbettes are thinnish, but they are behind the UB, which reaches the weather deck, and thus better protected than meets the eye at first.
The inboard sides of the barbettes are thicker :)

SMS Fast and Furious, Habsburgs Schlachtiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28 712 t light; 30 457 t standard; 32 028 t normal; 33 286 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   625,00 ft / 625,00 ft x 103,00 ft x 28,50 ft (normal load)
   190,50 m / 190,50 m x 31,39 m  x 8,69 m

Armament:
      4 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (2x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17 308 lbs / 7 851 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   225,00 ft / 68,58 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,71 ft / 2,65 m
     Main Belt covers 98% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   13,0" / 330 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 71 132 shp / 53 065 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 829 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 196 - 1 556

Cost:
   £3,800 million / $15,200 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 863 tons, 5,8%
   Armour: 11 253 tons, 35,1%
      - Belts: 5 197 tons, 16,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2,8%
      - Armament: 2 240 tons, 7,0%
      - Armour Deck: 2 640 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 282 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 2 971 tons, 9,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 225 tons, 38,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 317 tons, 10,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37 679 lbs / 17 091 Kg = 22,3 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 6,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 17,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,611
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,07 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,83 ft / 8,48 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Stern:      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,52 ft / 5,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134,2%
   Waterplane Area: 47 568 Square feet or 4 419 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs/sq ft or 953 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,46
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
Sorry, changing the turrets DID cause changes.

Of course it does, as the midship turrets now got 7% more shells per gun compared to the centerline ones. You can see the difference by looking at the magazine weight if you put all eight guns in the 2nd battery box in SS.

APQX

Have some serious doubt about the feasibility of having the 38cm gun turrets in wing positions. The top of the barbarette is after all about 10m wide, and while it can narrow down, a reduction with more then 2m do not seem realistic. This means that you are basically dispensing with torpedo defence around the turrets. Another risk that I suspect might be present is that damage around the bracings of the barbarette (top heavy, and far from the centre of gravity of the ship) might cause the entire barbarette to twist away from hull ripping it apart. :)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Interesting observation on the wing guns.
So, should I do a Dante Alighieri, or a Gangut?
Slightly better armoured:

SMS Fast and Furious inline, Habsburger Schlachtschiff laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28 337 t light; 30 043 t standard; 31 675 t normal; 32 980 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   636,00 ft / 636,00 ft x 106,00 ft x 28,50 ft (normal load)
   193,85 m / 193,85 m x 32,31 m  x 8,69 m

Armament:
      8 - 15,00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 000,00lbs / 907,18kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17 308 lbs / 7 851 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   400,00 ft / 121,92 m   18,00 ft / 5,49 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   236,00 ft / 71,93 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   7,00" / 178 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,71 ft / 2,65 m
     Main Belt covers 97% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   46,00 ft / 14,02 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,5" / 343 mm   6,00" / 152 mm      11,0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   6,00" / 152 mm         -         2,00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13,00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 69 388 shp / 51 764 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 11,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 937 tons

Complement:
   1 186 - 1 543

Cost:
   £3,747 million / $14,988 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 863 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 11 454 tons, 36,2%
      - Belts: 5 232 tons, 16,5%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2,8%
      - Armament: 2 369 tons, 7,5%
      - Armour Deck: 2 678 tons, 8,5%
      - Conning Tower: 280 tons, 0,9%
   Machinery: 2 767 tons, 8,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11 854 tons, 37,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 338 tons, 10,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38 769 lbs / 17 585 Kg = 23,0 x 15,0 " / 381 mm shells or 6,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 17,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,577
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,83 ft / 8,48 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Mid (50%):      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Stern:      17,71 ft / 5,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,52 ft / 5,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,3%
   Waterplane Area: 48 256 Square feet or 4 483 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 916 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,36
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform





Borys

[P3D]

About thinning down barbettes. I know I was the advocate, but it has significant disadvantage against plunging fire. at ~10-12ky, a broadside hit on the barbette might  pass over the UB, through the 0.25-0.5" thick weather deck with pretty much minimal effects concerning the thin barbette.

When I redesigned my new BBs as I could not fit the secondaries, I dispensed with the thinner barbettes.

[Jefgte]

suggest:

You can reduce the height of the belt ( actualy 18,00 ft / 5,49 m ) to have correct barbettes.


Jef  ;)

[Borys]

Why should I reduce MB height? It reaches 9 ft above the waterline, hiding one deck. And on top of that is another deck, fully hidden by the UB - 8,71 ft?

What wold be the danger space, if - barbette edge is 35' from UB, and the angle of fall of the enemy shell is 13 degrees?

Borys

[P3D]

8-9' vulnerable if the shells arrive from right angle abeam. If ship is firing at 60* TA, the vulnerable height is doubled.

[Borys]

Eight-nine feet? That's much more than I expected ...

Are we on the same wave lenght?
- turret is on weather deck level - so 3' of barbette is showing above deck level;
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_15-42_mk1_Vanguard_pic.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_135-45_mk5_EOI_pic.jpg
- UB belt reaches  weather deck level;
- an a shell incoming at 13 degrees to the deck at right angle abeam can hit the 3' above the deck, and a further 5-6' BELOW it?

Borys

[P3D]

I know you don't like trigonometry, but...

sin(13*) is 0.22 - i.e. at 35' distance the shell will travel 0.22*35=7.9' downward. Weather deck helps a bit but only around (insert some numbercrunching) 1" at this angle of fall.

[Borys]

I need a narrow ship, then .... :)

Hmm, if I change the 13,5" turret faces and 11" barbettes to 13" and 12" respectively, will that be enough?

Borys