Sleep deprived DKB designs...

khymerion · August 06, 2008, 03:36:16 PM

Ahhhhh... right! Again, you must remember... most of my numbers come from being sleep deprived a good deal of the time. So, 8 months... hmmmmm... still not bad, not bad... I was working in my head for a 1.5 year construction rate but then I sleepily put in my mind 7K tons and then halved it instead of halving the 1.5 year number... thus... 3.5 instead of 8... but it is still better than halving 19 like the D series cruiser at a 9.5 month to get in the water... and 9.5 fitting... hmmmmmm... I need to sleep more.

Jefgte · August 06, 2008, 04:40:27 PM

IMHO...

I am not sure that modernised an 14 yo - 20kts cruiser is a good thing.

20kts is definitively not enough in 1912 & later for a raider.

Better use for this ship is to work in a Squadron with same kind of ships.

Jef ;)

khymerion · August 06, 2008, 05:50:00 PM

Okay... raider is a bad term for it... landing command ship... would that be better?

khymerion · August 07, 2008, 07:56:45 AM

In review of all my previous mistakes most graciously pointed out in production numbers, the Duna class has proven to be a bit too... ambitious and overshot the original intended goal of being able to get a capable cruiser in the water and set for shake down trials in less than 1.5 years when it ballooned from 8.000 to 10,000 tons... and the Notfall class was a hair too small... still capable but when stacked against the goal of not having much wasted time, she falls short as well. Going back to the drawing board, a 9,000 light ton cruiser capable of being built on the abundant number of smaller slips within the empire came forward for proposal. Still an emergency production cruiser though so there will be failings... but it will have obtained the goal in question for a 1.5 year production length cruiser.

D-6, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   9,000 t light; 9,344 t standard; 10,349 t normal; 11,153 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.56 ft / 545.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   169.64 m / 166.12 m x 17.07 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
6 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,980 lbs / 898 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   434.25 ft / 132.36 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   110.73 ft / 33.75 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Upper:   0.50" / 13 mm   354.25 ft / 107.98 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm        -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 79,908 shp / 59,612 Kw = 30.88 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,809 tons

Complement:
   512 - 666

Cost:
   £1.057 million / $4.228 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 248 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 1,442 tons, 13.9 %
     - Belts: 729 tons, 7.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 203 tons, 2.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 480 tons, 4.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,186 tons, 30.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,769 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,349 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,170 lbs / 3,706 Kg = 28.9 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   20.80 ft / 6.34 m
     - Mid (50 %):      20.80 ft / 6.34 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.80 ft / 6.34 m
     - Stern:      20.80 ft / 6.34 m
     - Average freeboard:   21.46 ft / 6.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,604 Square feet or 2,007 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Tripple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 250 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Enlarged Bridge - 8 tons

P3D · August 07, 2008, 11:28:35 AM

Another undergunned DKB design. Sacrifices too much for the speed. I'd decrease speed and get another turret, preferably with more armor. I still don't understand why you need 1.23 seakeeping at 31kts. Every kt extra speed decreases seakeeping by 0.1. Go two or three knots slower if the weather is rough.
Another note is that AFAIK no wargame used to sim battles differentiates between 1.00" and 1.20" deck armor.

Where do you want to use the ship? This design is suboptimal for anything save commerce raiding.

khymerion · August 07, 2008, 12:50:55 PM

Then may I ask on a bit more open forum... what would be the optimum combination of speed and maneuverability? I don't really want to go slower because... well... then smaller things might be able to catch it and I am currently limited to putting 203mm or greater guns on a ship if I want turrets... and not the smaller 150s I would prefer on a ship like this... namely, I am trying to avoid the Not Enough Deck Space problem if I went with my more preferred method of mass 150mm guns that I could put all onto one target... something I have been told can't be done with AC technologies...

So, I am damned if I try to push 210mm gun cruiser because it fires too slow in an attempt to conserve deck space but if I go with a CL architecture, no twin or triple mounts and the fact that if I shot for 12 to 15 150mm guns, there would be fire arch problems coming to bear or the deck will be too cluttered for those and the torpedo tubes that I really want. Especially if I want to be able to put those 12 to 15 guns onto one target with the intention of having a volume of fire option.

But I'll keep working on it... suggestions wanted.

Borys · August 07, 2008, 01:06:54 PM

I think for a ship this size 28 knots is aplenty. There is nothing larger which is faster - besides one or two Dutch behemots under constructioin (or study?).

And that cut in speed would buy you 2 more MG and some more armour. The Main Belt is OK, I'd increase Ends to 2" or 3" - Upper Belt same.
Borys

Guinness · August 07, 2008, 01:13:26 PM

What's wrong with an 8x150mm in singles design, with 2x3 above tech torpedo tubes?

You can still superimpose those 150mm, maybe a superimposed pair forward and rear, and 2 on each beam. Think of the 1925 cruiser Emden, which carried the 8x150's, 3x105's, 3x88's and 4x533mm tubes on 7100 tons (standard).

She was still plenty small to fit in one of our type 1 docks too.

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that your Notfal is a similar design to what I propose. So you've got that one.

Jefgte · August 07, 2008, 05:32:43 PM

P3D wrote:
"Another undergunned DKB design..."

I agree

9000t - 898kg boardside with 6 guns...that's short

9000t-8x210 is better

Jef ;)

Sachmle · August 07, 2008, 05:54:23 PM

I think the idea is hulls in the water in quantity, not quality. With his massive merchant fleet(I'm assuming since he's an island nation) he needs trade protection cruisers, and lots of them, fast.

khymerion · August 07, 2008, 06:08:08 PM

Okay... so D-6 is a failure of a cruiser design so it came time to bite bullet and listen to advice and try to put out a slimmed down cruiser, now matching the size of the Notfalls, bringing to mind the idea something might be wrong with the original designs... so, it comes to the mind of either a slimmed down project D-6 (thus named the D-5) below or a reworked Notfall light cruiser, project F-5 till finalized (project name Falke).

D-5, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,285 t standard; 8,799 t normal; 10,010 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.95 ft / 545.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   169.15 m / 166.12 m x 17.07 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
6 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
6 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,910 lbs / 866 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   353.75 ft / 107.82 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   191.23 ft / 58.29 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 50,905 shp / 37,975 Kw = 28.50 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,725 tons

Complement:
   453 - 590

Cost:
   £0.796 million / $3.184 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 239 tons, 2.7 %
   Armour: 1,102 tons, 12.5 %
     - Belts: 544 tons, 6.2 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 152 tons, 1.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 378 tons, 4.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,030 tons, 23.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,275 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,799 tons, 20.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,230 lbs / 4,640 Kg = 36.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:   18.06 ft / 5.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,419 Square feet or 1,897 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 484 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Tripple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 250 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Enlarged Bridge - 8 tons

----------------------------------------------------

F-5, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,271 t standard; 8,783 t normal; 9,993 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.95 ft / 545.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   169.15 m / 166.12 m x 17.07 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
7 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
6 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,553 lbs / 704 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   368.75 ft / 112.40 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   175.73 ft / 53.56 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 54,470 shp / 40,635 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,722 tons

Complement:
   453 - 589

Cost:
   £0.777 million / $3.107 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 194 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1,055 tons, 12.0 %
     - Belts: 553 tons, 6.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 97 tons, 1.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 377 tons, 4.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,172 tons, 24.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,054 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,783 tons, 20.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 525 tons, 6.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,472 lbs / 4,297 Kg = 92.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.504
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:   18.06 ft / 5.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 103.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,402 Square feet or 1,895 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 451 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Tripple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Enlarged Bridge - 8 tons
Room for Growth - 320 tons

Sachmle · August 08, 2008, 01:48:32 AM

I would like to see a layout drawing of the F-5. The turret arangement seems funny to me.

khymerion · August 08, 2008, 01:19:03 PM

Now that you pointed out the failings in the layout of Project F-5, went and did what you asked and... oh my, you were right... I won't share the bad hand drawn sketches of the layout... no need to go blind looking at it... but it pointed out the need for a revamp. Removed the 105s and rearranged the 150s to better deal with the deck space... So wishing for turrets to carry desired number of guns...

F-5, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   7,013 t light; 7,277 t standard; 8,790 t normal; 10,000 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.95 ft / 545.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   169.15 m / 166.12 m x 17.07 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,444 lbs / 655 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   368.75 ft / 112.40 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   175.73 ft / 53.56 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 54,507 shp / 40,662 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,724 tons

Complement:
   453 - 590

Cost:
   £0.765 million / $3.060 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 180 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 1,055 tons, 12.0 %
     - Belts: 553 tons, 6.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 97 tons, 1.1 %
     - Armour Deck: 378 tons, 4.3 %
     - Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,173 tons, 24.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,049 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,777 tons, 20.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 555 tons, 6.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,600 lbs / 4,354 Kg = 93.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.504
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:   18.06 ft / 5.50 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,409 Square feet or 1,896 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 451 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Tripple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Enlarged Bridge - 8 tons
Room for Growth - 350 tons

P3D · August 08, 2008, 01:53:39 PM

You could have a design for a 29kt cruiser with 5-6x6" on less than 4500t - i'd rather have three of them vs. two 7000t ones, admittedly with less range.

khymerion · August 08, 2008, 02:40:29 PM

While I couldn't par down project F-5 to a 4.5K hull and still give it the range that I wanted... I did managed to get it down to a 5,000 ton hull and still get 7 6" guns center lined. While I will probably save the hull information of project F-5 till some time that it can be improved with superior tech, this new project E-4 will do nicely as a faster to construct vessel for the interim...

E-4, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5,000 t light; 5,169 t standard; 6,453 t normal; 7,480 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   519.95 ft / 510.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 15.00 ft (normal load)
   158.48 m / 155.45 m x 12.80 m x 4.57 m

Armament:
7 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 723 lbs / 328 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   369.50 ft / 112.62 m   7.78 ft / 2.37 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   140.48 ft / 42.82 m   7.78 ft / 2.37 m
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 48,799 shp / 36,404 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,311 tons

Complement:
   359 - 467

Cost:
   £0.571 million / $2.284 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 90 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 684 tons, 10.6 %
     - Belts: 294 tons, 4.6 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 49 tons, 0.8 %
     - Armour Deck: 318 tons, 4.9 %
     - Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,946 tons, 30.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,107 tons, 32.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,453 tons, 22.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 173 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,407 lbs / 2,906 Kg = 62.2 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.703
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Average freeboard:   17.06 ft / 5.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,214 Square feet or 1,599 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 347 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Triple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedo Storage - 36 tons (1 set in the tubes and 1 set of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Enlarged Bridge - 8 tons

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And finally, the smallest ship I am willing to probably design, Project E-3 is a measly 3.5K tons light and the cheapest of the cost cutter cruisers... oh to dream of a day when ships like this aren't needed to pad the numbers.

E-3, DKB Emergence Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   3,500 t light; 3,616 t standard; 4,089 t normal; 4,467 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   459.74 ft / 450.00 ft x 39.50 ft x 11.50 ft (normal load)
   140.13 m / 137.16 m x 12.04 m x 3.51 m

Armament:
6 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 505 lbs / 229 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.50" / 38 mm   388.50 ft / 118.41 m   7.59 ft / 2.31 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm     61.48 ft / 18.74 m   7.59 ft / 2.31 m
     Main Belt covers 133 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,853 shp / 27,493 Kw = 28.50 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 851 tons

Complement:
   255 - 332

Cost:
   £0.416 million / $1.664 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 228 tons, 5.6 %
     - Belts: 194 tons, 4.7 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 28 tons, 0.7 %
     - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,469 tons, 35.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,574 tons, 38.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 589 tons, 14.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 166 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,267 lbs / 1,482 Kg = 39.0 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.64 ft / 5.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 132.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,249 Square feet or 1,324 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 316 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedoes - 1 set in the tubes, 1 set of reloads
Radio - 25 tons
Room for expansion - 25 tons