Sleep deprived DKB designs...

[khymerion]

Forgive me if I messed something up...  but this came to mind.

Duna, DKB Fleet Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,331 t standard; 11,284 t normal; 12,046 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   665.11 ft / 660.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   202.73 m / 201.17 m x 18.29 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      15 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,831 lbs / 831 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.50" / 89 mm   479.00 ft / 146.00 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   180.98 ft / 55.16 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   429.00 ft / 130.76 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 78,000 shp / 58,188 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,715 tons

Complement:
   546 - 711

Cost:
   £1.067 million / $4.266 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 229 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 1,835 tons, 16.3 %
      - Belts: 871 tons, 7.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 162 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 770 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,110 tons, 27.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,525 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,284 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,102 lbs / 5,489 Kg = 117.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.20 ft / 5.55 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.20 ft / 5.55 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.20 ft / 5.55 m
      - Stern:      18.20 ft / 5.55 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.06 ft / 5.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,742 Square feet or 2,577 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 521 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.09
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Fire Control - 100 tons
Radio - 25 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets in the magazine)
Enlarged Bridge - 23 tons
Room for Expansion - 80 tons

[P3D]

6" is below accepted AC caliber.
Full turrets are not available until the next CL tech.
Nice Washington Treaty cruiser, though, even if a bit overweight :P

[khymerion]

Ahhh...  so it has to be 8" or larger main guns to qualify as a non-CL/full blooded AC... got it...

I know it really is a straight treaty cruiser (originally was supposed to be lighter but all things balloon...  started as an 8,000 ton ship)...  but I was shooting for a heavy anti-light combatant cruiser that could catch and hunt down lighter combatants that wasn't wasteful in construction potential.

Back to the drawing board.

Edit:  Here is try 2...

Duna mk II, DKB Fleet Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,401 t standard; 11,238 t normal; 11,907 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   670.56 ft / 660.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   204.39 m / 201.17 m x 18.29 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      10 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (5x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,112 lbs / 1,412 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   479.00 ft / 146.00 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   180.98 ft / 55.16 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   429.00 ft / 130.76 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 77,726 shp / 57,983 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,506 tons

Complement:
   545 - 709

Cost:
   £1.212 million / $4.846 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 389 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 1,536 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 749 tons, 6.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 192 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 563 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,099 tons, 27.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,665 tons, 41.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,238 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 2.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,948 lbs / 4,512 Kg = 35.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Stern:      18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.62 ft / 5.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,683 Square feet or 2,572 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 534 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo organization - 4 tripple tubes, 2 sets on each side.

Fire Control - 100 tons
Radio - 25 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets in the magazine)
Enlarged Bridge - 23 tons
Room for Improvement - 90 tons

[Sachmle]

Ahhh...  so it has to be 8" or larger main guns to qualify as a non-CL/full blooded AC... got it...

I know it really is a straight treaty cruiser (originally was supposed to be lighter but all things balloon...  started as an 8,000 ton ship)...  but I was shooting for a heavy anti-light combatant cruiser that could catch and hunt down lighter combatants that wasn't wasteful in construction potential.

Back to the drawing board.

It's not that it has to be 8"/200mm or bigger, it's that 6"/150mm and smaller guns can't be in turrets on barbettes w/o the relevant tech for PC/CLs. You can have a 6"/150mm armed AC, just have to have mount and hoist instead of turrets. I think.  :-\

[khymerion]

Question then... where is the line between light and armored cruiser then?   10K tons is roughly only 6K beneath some of the turreted BCs or lower end older BBs...

Did I miss a tonnage cut off point?   How much larger and heavier do I need to push the design to be able to use AC/BC/BB technologies?  How much smaller do I need to go to find that cut off to make an official CL?  Where did I mess up on the qualifications for which class?  If its size, it is rather and requiring a substantial dock for it...  if its weight...

Forgive me for asking here then out of confusion.

[Korpen]

Question then... where is the line between light and armored cruiser then?   10K tons is roughly only 6K beneath some of the turreted BCs or lower end older BBs...

Did I miss a tonnage cut off point?   How much larger and heavier do I need to push the design to be able to use AC/BC/BB technologies?  How much smaller do I need to go to find that cut off to make an official CL?  Where did I mess up on the qualifications for which class?  If its size, it is rather and requiring a substantial dock for it...  if its weight...

Forgive me for asking here then out of confusion.

The cut of is not in the tonnage, it is in armament. If the ship got guns larger then ~17cm in turrets it is BB/BC tech, smaller guns, Light cruiser tech.

[khymerion]

Okay... so the redesign using 210mm guns is valid and the 150mm gun earlier incantation needs a heavy redesign...  thank you very much for the clearing up of that mistake.  I will try not to do that mistake again.

[khymerion]

Technically a light cruiser but since this is seeming to evolve into my dumping grounds for designs (rather than wasting a new slot when ever I want to post a new design...) but it is especially a cruiser meant for rapid or semi-rapid production and use of smaller slips and dry docks till larger docks and slips can be either expanded or constructed.

As with anything that was designed to be build in quantity...  things had to be sacrificed.  But, it should take only 1.5 years from laying the keel to getting it pushed out the door for shake down.  While not perfect, there just aren't enough hulls for all the tasks the DKB wants to perform and guard.  There just isn't time for a larger or more capable design...

Notfall, DKB Emergency Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,269 t standard; 7,959 t normal; 8,511 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   510.35 ft / 500.00 ft x 53.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   155.55 m / 152.40 m x 16.15 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      7 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns in single mounts, 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,980 lbs / 898 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   475.00 ft / 144.78 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
   Ends:   0.50" / 13 mm     24.98 ft / 7.61 m   8.74 ft / 2.66 m
     Main Belt covers 146 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 72,949 shp / 54,420 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,241 tons

Complement:
   420 - 547

Cost:
   £0.938 million / $3.753 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 248 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 769 tons, 9.7 %
      - Belts: 331 tons, 4.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 67 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 353 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,909 tons, 36.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,820 tons, 35.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 959 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 255 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,139 lbs / 2,331 Kg = 18.2 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.584
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (20.50 ft / 6.25 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Stern:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.80 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,093 Square feet or 1,774 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 415 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Triple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship.

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Room for Design Improvements - 58 tons

[P3D]

210mm in deck mounts means you are storing a huge amount of sensitive propellants on the deck without any protection. Rate of fire would be awful (like one  round in one or two minutes) as a 21cm shell cannot be moved by two persons. That's the main reason for all the 7.5" caliber guns during WWI as their shell was the largest that could be hand-loaded. The 8" of the WT cruisers needed assisted handling (which might have been one reason for that specific caliber chosen). That means turrets, and AC technology.

Fire control with hand-worked heavy mounts like this would be pretty, khm,  interesting. And if you build it  under AC rules, you need 250t for the FC alone.

I don't want to face a 5000t cruiser with 6" guns in this ship.

Engine rooms are extremely cramped*, I don't think you have enough volume for an additional 36 torpedoes (and loading them from the magazines would take like several hours).

*This rather means that the machinery spaces are not totally below the waterline, but takes up at least one additional deck height. So you need a much higher belt there.

Ship is a HUGE target. It has larger freeboard than a battleship. You can decrease seakeeping to 1.00 - every 1kt speed means about a 0.10 change in seakeeping.

[miketr]

If you want something in this size range then consider this design and Orange also had somethin about as fast.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2483.msg26332#msg26332

Over all, I would go for 170mm weapons instead of the 210mm.  It would give you extra bunch compared to 150mm / 6" weapons.  At the same time that belt is paper thin.  I agree with P3D just about any 6" gunned cruiser might be able to shoot you up before you wreck them in turn.

Michael

[khymerion]

I don't honestly want to take the seakeeping down.

But I am going to give a resurrected 3rd attempt at the Duna, I don't really want to give up on it.  I really would like to hammer out all the problems with it.

Duna mk 3, DKB Fleet Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,401 t standard; 11,238 t normal; 11,907 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   670.56 ft / 660.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   204.39 m / 201.17 m x 18.29 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      10 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (5x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,112 lbs / 1,412 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   509.00 ft / 155.14 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Ends:   1.00" / 25 mm   150.98 ft / 46.02 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   429.00 ft / 130.76 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 77,717 shp / 57,977 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,506 tons

Complement:
   545 - 709

Cost:
   £1.212 million / $4.846 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 389 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 1,537 tons, 13.7 %
      - Belts: 768 tons, 6.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 173 tons, 1.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 563 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,099 tons, 27.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,642 tons, 41.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,238 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 333 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,915 lbs / 4,498 Kg = 35.1 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Stern:      18.80 ft / 5.73 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.62 ft / 5.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,683 Square feet or 2,572 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo organization - 4 tripple tubes, 2 sets on each side.

Fire Control - 250 tons
Radio - 25 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 1 set in the magazine)
Enlarged Bridge - 22 tons

and now my second try at the Notfall...  this time with smaller guns and a better mount choice...  I keep messing up.

Notfall mk 2, DKB Emergency Production Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,203 t standard; 7,834 t normal; 8,339 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   510.35 ft / 500.00 ft x 53.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   155.55 m / 152.40 m x 16.15 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 826 lbs / 375 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   435.00 ft / 132.59 m   10.25 ft / 3.12 m
   Ends:   0.50" / 13 mm     64.98 ft / 19.81 m   10.25 ft / 3.12 m
   Upper:   0.50" / 13 mm   435.00 ft / 132.59 m   10.25 ft / 3.12 m
     Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 71,891 shp / 53,631 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,136 tons

Complement:
   416 - 541

Cost:
   £0.800 million / $3.199 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 103 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 1,056 tons, 13.5 %
      - Belts: 638 tons, 8.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 51 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 350 tons, 4.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 2,866 tons, 36.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,769 tons, 35.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 834 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 205 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,957 lbs / 2,702 Kg = 57.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.575
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (20.50 ft / 6.25 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Stern:      20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.80 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,930 Square feet or 1,759 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 410 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.03
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo Layout - 2 Tripple torpedo tubes on each side of the ship

Fire Control - 100 tons
Torpedo Storage - 72 tons (1 set in the tubes and 3 sets of reloads)
Radio - 25 tons
Room for Design Improvements - 8 tons

[P3D]

I like this one, although, I'd prefer some increase in the armor thickness. 6" APC would start penetrating 3" from 13000y.

If you want to squeeze out good seakeeping at 31kts on a 500' hull, you will get insane freeboards. So make it longer, and don't try to squeeze it in a lvl 2 dock.

However, there's only a single harbor with lvl 3 drydock where you could base such a long ship, so you will need to consider naval infrastructure expansion - at least  you have the money for that. You can only build one each year until you have more than one large enough slipway, too.

[khymerion]

Thank you and I will definitely take those considerations into mind when working on any follow on designs and once there are more lvl 3 docks available.  Sadly, I need to be able to use what i currently have available till expansions in the infrastructure are completely...  Like stated, the Notfall class is an emergency construction design... not desired but with the ability lay a keel and then push the hull into the water from a lvl 2 slip in less than 3 months and 2 weeks for fitting out before being able to lay a second keel within a week...

I would really prefer to put the D series cruisers into the water and would enjoy building up to that capability...  with a 5 month turn around from keel laying to pushing in the water to fit out only puts 2 ships in the water per year while the number of slips within the DKB capable of putting the N series cruiser in the water is much greater, by a couple of magnitudes.  Not the highest of quality but then again, as a man once said, quantity is a quality all onto its own.

Now, match this with an increased submarine construction rate to use all those type 0 and type 1 docks not building light combatants...

But there is one more pressing matter... namely some of the ships that are coming up for refit in the next year or so...  and 3 of these ships are rather...  unimpressive considering the new era the fleet is heading in...  but with the lack of effective hulls currently (till production begins in FY13 of replacements)... scrapping or selling off is not an option so the following 3 Kleiner Kreuzers will be going off to the yards to be reworked,  Amazone, Gazelle, and Medusa.

The Amazone and Gazelle class KK are both long in the tooth and near sister classes, near identical in tonnage, performance, and profile.  Sadly, their days of being effective fleet vessels is waning with each passing year as larger and more effective ships get put in the water.  These two near sisters would be refitted over to a role not filled efficiently enough yet... a Minenlegen.

The refit will nearly completely alter the three ships profiles completely as much of the upper works will be cut off completely, brought down to a flush deck, and the older 105mm guns will be removed for lighter 88mm deck guns to ward off smaller combatants.  The intent was to make the ships a bit harder to spot on the horizon but namely it was a weight conservation measure to allow the old ships to be able to function in conjunction with the last remaining mine layer, the SMS Ziethen.  In addition to these changes, the old below the waterline torpedo tubes were removed in favor of adding a pair of above the water line triple torpedo tubes of a more modern design as a stand off weapon.  While a reload is provided, it isn't anticipated as ever being used.

But enough talking, I have written a poor proposal so far...  here is the rework of those two classes into a newer, more homogeneous class.

Gazelle (YF13 refit), DKB Kleiner Kreuzer Refit laid down 1898

Displacement:
   2,612 t light; 2,688 t standard; 3,038 t normal; 3,318 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   342.52 ft / 342.52 ft x 40.03 ft x 15.88 ft (normal load)
   104.40 m / 104.40 m x 12.20 m  x 4.84 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1898 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 210 lbs / 95 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,431 ihp / 6,290 Kw = 20.39 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 631 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   203 - 265

Cost:
   £0.295 million / $1.180 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 26 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 102 tons, 3.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 84 tons, 2.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,296 tons, 42.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 785 tons, 25.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 426 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 403 tons, 13.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,183 lbs / 537 Kg = 56.9 x 3.5 " / 88 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.488
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.24 ft / 2.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 158.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 53.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,040 Square feet or 840 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 56 lbs/sq ft or 274 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.16
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Torpedo layout - 1 triple set on each side

Torpedoes - 1 set in the tubes, 1 set of reloads - 18 tons
Modernized Radio Room - 25 tons
Climatisation - 10 tons
Mine Storage and Rails - 350 tons

[P3D]

Where did you get the 3 months figure for slipway usage? Construction time 19 months, You can launch it after 40-50% complete, i.e. 8-9 months - then add one month of cleanup time.

I forget that you could also use the drydock for construction, so that's two ships each year. Not as if you need it for anything else, DKB does not have large liners.

[khymerion]

Another older series warship that is growing progressively long in the tooth and in desperate need for a refit anyways, the old Großer Kreuzer Prinz Heinrich was looking at a future at a wrecker but a different task came to mind... marine task force leader/marine raider vessel.  It would involve a good deal of reworking the warship and it would nearly come out a completely new ship but it would give the old hull a new lease on life with the future fleet.  Sadly, she would be putting on nearly a 1000 tons of weight in this new role if this conversion goes through, further marring the older ship lines.

Prinz Heinrich, DKB Marine Raiding Cruiser laid down 1898

Displacement:
   8,830 t light; 9,212 t standard; 9,941 t normal; 10,524 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   409.78 ft / 409.78 ft x 63.98 ft x 24.93 ft (normal load)
   124.90 m / 124.90 m x 19.50 m  x 7.60 m

Armament:
      4 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (2x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (2x2 guns), 282.57lbs / 128.17kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2,546 lbs / 1,155 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm     81.69 ft / 24.90 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.10" / 155 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   6.10" / 155 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.47" / 12 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.47" / 12 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,095 ihp / 12,007 Kw = 20.05 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,312 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   497 - 647

Cost:
   £0.933 million / $3.731 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 318 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 1,589 tons, 16.0 %
      - Belts: 615 tons, 6.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 260 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 655 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,545 tons, 25.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,257 tons, 32.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,111 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1,120 tons, 11.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,614 lbs / 3,454 Kg = 26.9 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.91

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,997 Square feet or 1,672 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 542 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Torpedo Layout - 1 tripple torpedo set on each side.

Torpedoes and reloads - 18 tons (1 set in the tubes and 1 set of reloads)
Modernized radio room - 25 tons
Landing Operations Center - 20 tons
Climatisation - 10 tons
200 Marines - 400 tons
Raider Supplies - 400 tons
Landing Barges, 4 10 ton landing boats of 40 men each including deployment equipment - 60 tons
Medical Theater - 100 tons
Misc Cargo - 70 tons
Priority prisoner holdings - 7 tons