Finally, an NUS BB design that's not undergunned.

Started by Sachmle, June 26, 2008, 08:39:12 AM

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Sachmle

#30
July 15, 2008, 11:04:45 AM
Quote from: Jefgte on July 15, 2008, 08:05:53 AM
5T2x343 are better than 4T2x343...


Jef  ;)

True, but as range, even w/ FC is still only in the 10-12kyd area I'll trade 2 343mm for the extra 2 152mm, 8 extra 102mm, the 8" upper belt, and the longer main belt. ;)
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Sachmle

#31
July 18, 2008, 05:07:01 AM Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 05:12:06 AM by Sachmle
Which is better?
5x2x13.5"/L40
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   21,400 t light; 22,756 t standard; 24,675 t normal; 26,210 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 29.26 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      10 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,860 lbs / 6,287 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   367.00 ft / 111.86 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,009 shp / 19,403 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,455 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   983 - 1,279

Cost:
   £2.991 million / $11.965 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,721 tons, 7.0 %
   Armour: 8,521 tons, 34.5 %
      - Belts: 3,771 tons, 15.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,794 tons, 11.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,737 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,113 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,745 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,275 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,090 lbs / 15,463 Kg = 27.7 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.56

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.557
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,561 Square feet or 3,490 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 910 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

__________________________________________________________________
Or 6x2x12"/L45
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   21,150 t light; 22,504 t standard; 24,409 t normal; 25,933 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 29.26 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,045.00lbs / 474.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,900 lbs / 6,305 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   367.00 ft / 111.86 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 25,787 shp / 19,237 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,430 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   976 - 1,269

Cost:
   £2.720 million / $10.880 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,479 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 8,656 tons, 35.5 %
      - Belts: 3,769 tons, 15.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,942 tons, 12.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,727 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 218 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,103 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,612 tons, 39.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,259 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37,094 lbs / 16,826 Kg = 42.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,350 Square feet or 3,470 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 902 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

BigGun gives the 12"/L45 12.28" of penetration @ 10kyd, while the 13.5"/L40 only gets 12.12" @ same range.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Jefgte

#32
July 18, 2008, 06:11:53 AM
Sachmle wrote:
"BigGun gives the 12"/L45 12.28" of penetration @ 10kyd, while the 13.5"/L40 only gets 12.12" @ same range."


& your belt is only 12" ...!



Jef  ;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf

The Rock Doctor

#33
July 18, 2008, 06:35:15 AM
If the penetration is essentially similar, whatever's on the inside is going to get trashed regardless of shell size.  I'd go with the more numerous 12" guns, then.

Borys

#34
July 18, 2008, 08:55:35 AM
Ahoj!
I think my Juan de Austria is better than either.
The 5x2x13,5" version is IMO better, as long as it fights not at parallel lines, but at angles, as to increase relative Main Belt thickness.
I'd cut End Belts down to 4", and use the gained weight either on Turret Faces (13") , or on a 4"-5" Upper Belt, some 7'.

Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Sachmle

#35
July 18, 2008, 02:36:12 PM
Increased main belt, turret face and barbette thickness, and added an upper belt and a TDS. Lowered end belt thickness and of course added weight.

6x2x12"/L45, Naciones Unidas Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,372 t standard; 25,318 t normal; 26,875 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 94.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.65 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,045.00lbs / 474.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,900 lbs / 6,305 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.00 ft / 59.44 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,378 shp / 19,678 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,503 tons (75% coal)

Complement:
   1,003 - 1,304

Cost:
   £2.762 million / $11.049 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,479 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 9,515 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 4,139 tons, 16.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 563 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 2,859 tons, 11.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,713 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 241 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,129 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,578 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,318 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,837 lbs / 17,616 Kg = 44.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.564
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,028 Square feet or 3,440 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 893 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

The Rock Doctor

#36
July 18, 2008, 04:03:09 PM
It's starting to look pretty similar to Triunfante at that point.  Which is not a bad thing...

Sachmle

#37
July 19, 2008, 11:05:08 AM
Next.....
5x2x13.5v2, Naciones Unidas Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   23,000 t light; 24,397 t standard; 26,364 t normal; 27,938 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1,250.00lbs / 566.99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13,780 lbs / 6,251 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   204.00 ft / 62.18 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   353.00 ft / 107.59 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 27,284 shp / 20,354 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,541 tons (70% coal)

Complement:
   1,033 - 1,344

Cost:
   £3.059 million / $12.238 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,710 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 9,857 tons, 37.4 %
      - Belts: 4,367 tons, 16.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 705 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,822 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,734 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 229 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,162 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,972 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,364 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,195 lbs / 17,325 Kg = 31.0 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (51 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.08 ft / 6.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,487 Square feet or 3,483 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 188 lbs/sq ft or 916 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.92
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Borys

#38
July 19, 2008, 11:43:57 AM
Don't fiddle more.
Build it!
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Sachmle

#39
July 19, 2008, 11:49:49 AM
Yeah..I already adjusted my building plan...this one's getting built.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Jefgte

#40
July 19, 2008, 04:23:43 PM
Very nice BB well balanced.

Pleasant to make exercise with her.


Jef  ;)
"You French are fighting for money, while we English are fighting for honor!"
"Everyone is fighting for what they miss. "
Surcouf
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