A design study by the DKB

[khymerion]

So the clipper bow all together is not available nor is an overhang on the fantail?  I thought the argument earlier was making the waterline length too much for the dock dimensions.  I... will start working on the next incarnation.  I just thought that was an idea bow form for driving through waves at fast speeds.


As for the Block Coefficient, the program didn't send any major warnings my direction about it being so low... again my fault.  As was the thinning of the armored deck.

[maddox]

SS doesn't aknowledge the problems with "too low Block coefficient", so no warning there.


And the total length - OA- is what the dimensions of the docks can allow to be build.  Just gametechnical, not based on IRL effects.

[khymerion]

No longer a tuna cruiser... now she is starting to resemble a scary CA than a short Moltke...  but hey, I like the project title

SMS Ritterlich, Deutcher Kaiserreich Brandenburg Surface Raider laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   13,281 t light; 13,917 t standard; 15,189 t normal; 16,207 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.39 ft / 537.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   168.98 m / 163.68 m x 22.86 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.00kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,846 lbs / 2,198 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   342.75 ft / 104.47 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   194.23 ft / 59.20 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   342.75 ft / 104.47 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 66,579 shp / 49,668 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,290 tons

Complement:
   683 - 889

Cost:
   £1.468 million / $5.870 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 606 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 3,571 tons, 23.5 %
      - Belts: 1,320 tons, 8.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 999 tons, 6.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,147 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 106 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,655 tons, 17.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,049 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,909 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,154 lbs / 7,781 Kg = 25.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      33.00 ft / 10.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.88 ft / 6.97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,792 Square feet or 2,303 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 3.01
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Fire Control - 250 tons
Marconi - 25 tons
Unspecified tonnage at this time - 225 tons

[khymerion]

And in her final study design incarnation...  finally at an even tonnage number, after cutting through enough red tap with the contractors and a ship the builders say will fit the docks...  project 'Tuna Cruiser'...  now with marine raider platoon for fun and profit!

SMS Ritterlich, Deutcher Kaiserreich Brandenburg Surface Raider laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,770 t standard; 16,081 t normal; 17,129 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 540.35 ft x 76.00 ft x 33.00 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 164.70 m x 23.16 m  x 10.06 m

Armament:
      9 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,595 lbs / 2,992 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   370.35 ft / 112.88 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   170.00 ft / 51.82 m   9.30 ft / 2.83 m
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   342.75 ft / 104.47 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 69,273 shp / 51,677 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,359 tons

Complement:
   713 - 928

Cost:
   £1.712 million / $6.847 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 824 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 3,393 tons, 21.1 %
      - Belts: 1,368 tons, 8.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 972 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 944 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 110 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,762 tons, 17.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,670 tons, 41.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,081 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,583 lbs / 7,068 Kg = 23.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.415
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      33.00 ft / 10.06 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.04 ft / 6.41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,521 Square feet or 2,371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 763 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.77
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Fire Control - 250 tons
Marconi - 25 tons
Raider Infantry Platoon (3 Squads of 16 soldiers each at 1.56 tons a peice) - 75 tons

[Jefgte]

A very good balanced ship

Perfect to do BC job

Great range is a plus.


but, an expensive raider...



Jef  ;)

[P3D]

The DKB already has very similar ships, 3 guns less, with 50% more armor. You might have missed them. See post #32:

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=892.30


More criticism:

BC still too low, draught is excessive. Most destroyers are over 0.415, and 33' draught (35' at full displacement) won't be able to get into some DKB harbors. 14,000t should be ~25' draught. While SS2 does not scream, historical designs present some guidelines.

The main belt is too narrow, full ship sitting 4' deeper than a light one. Add waves (generated by wind or sailing at 28kts) and the ship might blow up from a 6" shell hitting the magazine below the belt. Or the top of the belt is below water at full displacement.

[khymerion]

While I would love to agree whole heartedly with the statements made about the Ritterlich, there are a few problems I had in making her.  I would love to have used exclusively the Moltke as I did see her and her phenomenal performance... and the fact that 4 have been laid down and work started on them.  But the great problem came up with the fact that I was limited in the number of available slips to produce them internally and in need of ships buildable in the next dock size down... which there are plenty of but lacking the ships that would be able to keep speed with the 28 knot Moltke.  Thus Ritterlich came to bear.  If I wanted to use a Type 3 dock to produce a ship that was outclassing the size of the Type 2 by only a small margin, it seemed to be a waste of space... especially if there is nearly 100+ feet of empty slip that could be used.


I understand Moltke is a superior ship in most regards... it is the practicality of having slip space to build with that is now in question.

Also, I understand that the draught is excessive but it isn't too excessive.  Some sacrifices had to be made to make it actually attain the speeds desired.  Battle Wagons don't go much deeper and true, she won't make it into some of the smaller DKB ports... but then again, neither would some of the older heavier ships... or ships that are to come.  The Main Belt problem can be remedied. 

But as for the Block Coefficient, true... historically things progressed a certain way because that is what was accepted.  Attitudes came and people followed suit.  I used history as a guideline...  but I am not looking to directly copy any one design.   I have to use the technology available to me to get the most desired results.  I am sure if I had a bit of A or a bit of B, I might be able to do better... or if I wait a few years... which I might not have to wait for...  something better will come along... but this, is what works...  I am sorry if it is a bit more smooth and less blocky than what was traditionally accepted across the world...

but then again, I like racing ships.

[The Rock Doctor]

Actually, there are only three Moltkes underway (2 domestic, 1 in UNK), and they require ~11 months in the slipways.  The two domestic models will have been launched in late May of 1912, leaving the two big slipways available for new construction after that. 

[Jefgte]

After fine examen, I agree globaly with Khym

You want too much on a 170m - 14000t hull

9x280 - 7" belt & 28kts

---------------------------------------
If you want 28kts, reduce armament &/or protection
----------------------------------------
If you want 9x280, reduce speed &/or armour



Jef  ;)

[P3D]

I'd note that the deep draught already reduced the stability to marginal (=1.00). The first high wave (or half the crew lining up on portside) would turn the ship over.

[Korpen]

I'd note that the deep draught already reduced the stability to marginal (=1.00). The first high wave (or half the crew lining up on portside) would turn the ship over.

I agree that the lack of a stabillity reserve is a problem, but it is not as bad as that. After all the ship is not unstable as is. But i would not like to aboard her if she takes on water...