First BB Attemp Italian BB to be layed down in 1913

[ctwaterman]

I dont get this you tell me to reduce the free board but when I do that my ship becomes tight and cramped and wet forward.   The only way I have found to make the ships sea boat quality improve is to raise the free board... hmmm.... maybe up or down even more will work...... ???

[Guinness]

I've been looking up real world examples to get an idea of what works. For instance, SS2 comes with an example of HMS Queen Elizabeth, which looked like a pretty good place to start, at least for freeboard.

Reducing by one deck at or aft of the midline was a common technique of the Dreadnought era and later, for instance.

[ctwaterman]

There is a problem with my Bloody Battle Ships.... they keep sinking.... how in the heck do you get a ship to have good sea keeping abilities without overloading the Free Board if you use the suggested numbers the stupid things sink in stiff breezes.

[ctwaterman]

There she is done I think ??? :o





BB-1913, Empire of Italia Battle SHip laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   29,323 t light; 31,015 t standard; 32,759 t normal; 34,155 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   179.83 m / 179.83 m x 29.87 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,722 lbs / 6,678 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   398.00 ft / 121.31 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     7.00 ft / 2.13 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   398.00 ft / 121.31 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.75" / 44 mm   368.00 ft / 112.17 m   27.28 ft / 8.31 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 75,721 shp / 56,488 Kw = 25.06 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,140 tons

Complement:
   1,216 - 1,582

Cost:
   £3.267 million / $13.068 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,840 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 11,865 tons, 36.2 %
      - Belts: 5,142 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 650 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,889 tons, 8.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,897 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 287 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,019 tons, 9.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,974 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,436 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 625 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,359 lbs / 20,121 Kg = 32.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

[miketr]

A bit of the ships hull is un armored.

   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     7.00 ft / 2.13 m Unarmoured ends

Increase the ends to 192 feet in length.

Also do you want a 25 knot ship and range at 7,000 nm is fairly high.


Michael

[P3D]

I miss the end of the report, freeboard, etc.
The 8" barbettes are IMO paper thin.

[ctwaterman]

Fixed the Barbettes glaring problme there and the under armored ends....
I suspect she is probably a little over built right now....

BB-1913, Empire of Italia Battle SHip laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   29,323 t light; 31,015 t standard; 32,759 t normal; 34,155 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   179.83 m / 179.83 m x 29.87 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,722 lbs / 6,678 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   398.00 ft / 121.31 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   192.00 ft / 58.52 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   398.00 ft / 121.31 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.75" / 44 mm   368.00 ft / 112.17 m   27.28 ft / 8.31 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 51,436 shp / 38,371 Kw = 22.74 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,140 tons

Complement:
   1,216 - 1,582

Cost:
   £3.119 million / $12.477 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,840 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 12,615 tons, 38.5 %
      - Belts: 4,920 tons, 15.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 650 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 3,860 tons, 11.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,897 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 287 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,051 tons, 6.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,193 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,436 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 625 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,510 lbs / 22,911 Kg = 36.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.86
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.661
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (70 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.11 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,741 Square feet or 4,157 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 935 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

250t FC
100t Aux FC
25t W/T
250t Admiral & Staff accomidations

[Jefgte]

Good BB, Well balanced.

If you want a round displacement,
29300t for ex, adjust the draught in mm
I mean 29323t for 9.14m
29300t for 9.13264m.

(You can reduce the number of shells from125 to 120 or less)

Round displacement is more easy to calculate the building plan, year after year.


Jef  ;)

[P3D]

You have 5000t extra light displacement over Tennessee, going into armor and machinery. Possible savings are cutting armored deck by 0.50" (or not), upper and end belts to 4-6". 1.50 seaboat quality is overkill, 1.20 should be fine.
I also prefer having 1-2" thicker turret face than barbette, and it does not cost a lot.

The 250t of the battleship FC includes all the redundancy you need.

[ctwaterman]

Ok will look at small tweakings of the ship. 
The 100t Aux Fire Control was an attempt to have a back up in case of damage to Primary and to have a fire control station available for the 2nd Battery of 5" Guns to engage other targets then those being targeted by the Main Battery.   Basically a ship better able to engage an Enemy BB and a Few TB or DD trying to make a Torpedo Run.

I see different people using different Tonnage figures for W/T or Marconi - is thier a set figure I missed somewhere.

[Sachmle]

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=327.0 There ya go.

[ctwaterman]

I think this is likely to be the final copy I took some of the advice and being able to play in metric millimeters appears to be quite effective.  You would think that after 100 Years with it as our official system of measurement we could use it more often.

BB-1913, Empire of Italia Battle SHip laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28,943 t light; 30,627 t standard; 32,359 t normal; 33,746 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 29.63 ft (normal load)
   179.83 m / 179.83 m x 29.87 m  x 9.03 m

Armament:
      10 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,722 lbs / 6,678 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   365.00 ft / 111.25 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     25.00 ft / 7.62 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   365.00 ft / 111.25 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.75" / 44 mm   365.00 ft / 111.25 m   27.28 ft / 8.31 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -         2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 61,563 shp / 45,926 Kw = 23.84 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,119 tons

Complement:
   1,206 - 1,568

Cost:
   £3.166 million / $12.665 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,840 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 11,755 tons, 36.3 %
      - Belts: 4,429 tons, 13.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 645 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 3,914 tons, 12.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,483 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 284 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,455 tons, 7.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,268 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,416 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 625 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,414 lbs / 21,506 Kg = 34.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.36

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.661
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (70 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   25.11 ft / 7.65 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,741 Square feet or 4,157 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 943 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t FC
100t Aux FC
25t W/T
250t Admiral & Staff accomidations