1913 - Habsburg peace Cruiser - not underarmoured?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Overall hull strenght is 1,05. As I don't bother with TDS on such small ships, this overweigthness represents extensive compartmentisation.
The role of such ships would be destruction of enemy shipping and the odd smaller cruiser.

SMS Kunegund, Habsburgs Panzerkreuzer laid down 1913

Displacement:
   9 950 t light; 10 365 t standard; 11 473 t normal; 12 359 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   561,73 ft / 550,00 ft x 72,00 ft x 20,00 ft (normal load)
   171,21 m / 167,64 m x 21,95 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns (4x2 guns), 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 092 lbs / 949 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   325,00 ft / 99,06 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   225,00 ft / 68,58 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Upper:   3,00" / 76 mm   325,00 ft / 99,06 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 91% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   2,75" / 70 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3,25" / 83 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57 728 shp / 43 065 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 993 tons

Complement:
   553 - 720

Cost:
   £0,975 million / $3,900 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 272 tons, 2,4%
   Armour: 2 598 tons, 22,6%
      - Belts: 1 369 tons, 11,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 456 tons, 4,0%
      - Armour Deck: 737 tons, 6,4%
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 2 262 tons, 19,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 618 tons, 40,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 522 tons, 13,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 988 lbs / 7 706 Kg = 80,5 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 4,0 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (24%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (45%):      22,00 ft / 6,71 m (19,00 ft / 5,79 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Stern:      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,73 ft / 6,32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166,6%
   Waterplane Area: 26 554 Square feet or 2 467 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 573 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,57
      - Overall: 1,05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

"Peace Cruiser"...? 

[Borys]

Incredible as it seems, it is an authentic, pre PC age, designation used by the USN for small cruisers for distant stations. As this ship to me represents a step up from the colonial aviso type, I decided it would be fitting.
Borys 

[The Rock Doctor]

"Colonial Cruiser" might be a less ironic designation, then.

Generally a good design, but are you certain you need the 4" secondary battery?

[Borys]

"Colonial Cruiser" might be a less ironic designation, then.

Colonial Peace Cruiser - as it brings peace to the colonies?

Generally a good design, but are you certain you need the 4" secondary battery?

No, I am not certain of that.
Borys

[Borys]

No 4" secondary. One more MG turret. Pyramid aft.

SMS Kunegund II, Habsburgs Reider laid down 1913

Displacement:
   9 957 t light; 10 365 t standard; 11 473 t normal; 12 359 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   562,38 ft / 550,00 ft x 72,00 ft x 20,00 ft (normal load)
   171,41 m / 167,64 m x 21,95 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
      10 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns (5x2 guns), 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 108 lbs / 956 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   325,00 ft / 99,06 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   225,00 ft / 68,58 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Upper:   3,00" / 76 mm   325,00 ft / 99,06 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 91% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   2,75" / 70 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3,25" / 83 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 57 728 shp / 43 065 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 993 tons

Complement:
   553 - 720

Cost:
   £0,980 million / $3,919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 277 tons, 2,4%
   Armour: 2 567 tons, 22,4%
      - Belts: 1 242 tons, 10,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 552 tons, 4,8%
      - Armour Deck: 737 tons, 6,4%
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 2 262 tons, 19,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 651 tons, 40,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 516 tons, 13,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 373 lbs / 7 427 Kg = 77,6 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 2,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,507
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,00 ft / 8,53 m
      - Forecastle (30%):   26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Mid (35%):      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Stern:      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,52 ft / 6,56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160,2%
   Waterplane Area: 26 554 Square feet or 2 467 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 572 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,61
      - Overall: 1,05
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

Missions is apparently commerce raiding and killing 6" armed cruisers - running from ACs and beyond.

1.05 hull strength is not the best way to represent compartmentalization. Get that down to 1.00. I agree with no TDS. Put the 5 turrets on the centreline, get hull strength to 1.00.

[Borys]

Missions is apparently commerce raiding and killing 6" armed cruisers - running from ACs and beyond.

Yes.

1.05 hull strength is not the best way to represent compartmentalization.

What do you suggest?

Get that down to 1.00.

Why?

I agree with no TDS.

Good!

Put the 5 turrets on the centreline, get hull strength to 1.00.

But I have the turrets on the centerline ....

Borys

[Sachmle]

Put the 5 turrets on the centreline, get hull strength to 1.00.

But I have the turrets on the centerline ....

Borys

I think he means "Centerline, distributed" instead of "Centerline ends"

[miketr]

Looks like a more heavily armed and armored version of my CL design.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2483.msg26332#msg26332

[P3D]

1.05 hull strength is not the best way to represent compartmentalization.

What do you suggest?

If you don't have the underwater volume, the extra strength would only mean some heavier bulkheads/decks, not more compartments. I.e. a waste of tonnage, 1.00 composite strength should have adequate safety margins built in.

But I have the turrets on the centerline ....

My bad.