Replacement Cruiser for the San Martin class ACs

[Sachmle]

While there are larger, faster, and heavier armed cruisers, frigates, whatever you call them, for ships her size she is either faster, or stronger. I checked through everyone else's lists of cruisers and the stronger ones were all 2k-3k heavier, while the faster ones were usually smaller (5-6k range) and only marginally (2-3kts) faster. Obviously mistakes could have been made, but I was pretty thorough. This is a compromise La Marina is prepared to make. Lay down depends on the incorporation of superfiring tech, which will begin in 2HY/1912 and therefore these will be laid down 2HY/1913.

Reemplazo San Martin, NUS Armoured Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)


Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

Displacement:
   9,000 t light; 9,460 t standard; 10,355 t normal; 11,071 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   460.00 ft / 460.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   140.21 m / 140.21 m x 22.25 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (3x2 guns), 400.00lbs / 181.44kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      14 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 2,901 lbs / 1,316 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   210.00 ft / 64.01 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 84 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 32,199 shp / 24,020 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,611 tons

Complement:
   513 - 667

Cost:
   £0.868 million / $3.472 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 358 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3,200 tons, 30.9 %
      - Belts: 2,066 tons, 19.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 654 tons, 6.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 419 tons, 4.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,284 tons, 12.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,013 tons, 38.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,355 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 145 tons, 1.4 %
        - 100t F/C
        - 25t W/T
        - 20t 20 18" Torpedoes
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,672 lbs / 8,016 Kg = 45.4 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.514
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.00 ft / -0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (26 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (72 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.07 ft / 6.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,661 Square feet or 2,105 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 587 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

While there are larger, faster, and heavier armed cruisers, frigates, whatever you call them, for ships her size she is either faster, or stronger. I checked through everyone else's lists of cruisers and the stronger ones were all 2k-3k heavier, while the faster ones were usually smaller (5-6k range) and only marginally (2-3kts) faster. Obviously mistakes could have been made, but I was pretty thorough. This is a compromise La Marina is prepared to make.

Well, You already pointed out the thing that make me dislike her. :)
I think she is a compromise of the bad sides of smaller and larger, she lacks the speed to catch the 26-27 kts light cruisers and avoid the 25kts BCs that are around. At the same time, while she is more powerful or faster then older ships of her size I am not convinced that the advantage is significant enough to give a real edge in a fight, there are allot of old ACs at around 10kton that I think would give her a run for her money.

[Sachmle]

Unfortunately to get faster or stronger she must get heavier, which I can't afford. With only 5.5BP/HY to spend I don't have alot of options. I, of course, would consider having an improved design built abroad, but most everyone is using all there BP for themselves. I REALLY need to replace the San Martin's ASAP and this is the best I can swing on my own.

[Desertfox]

Cut the armor and cut the guns and you should get a better ship. 26knots, 6" belt, and 6x8" guns should do the trick. And you can probably get 3 for the price of two. Anything they can't handle is a job for a battlecruiser.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I ALMOST agree with Desertfox :)

26knots, 6" belt, BUT 8x7,5"

Borys

[Jefgte]

9000t with 6x234-24 kts...not enough

With the reduction of the belt from 8" to 6" & 5" to 3", you could probably add a Q turret or increase the speed.

I have similar projects for 1914 & 1915
PC to escort BBs & engage cruisers & DDs
They are built to work in a BS.
1914
6000t- (no more)
3T2x230-AQY-belt 120-23kts

1915
8000t
4T2x230-APQY-belt140-25kts

[Sachmle]

Perhaps this instead?
AC1915, NUS Armoured Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
Displacement:
   10,000 t light; 10,568 t standard; 11,523 t normal; 12,287 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   505.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 68.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   153.92 m / 152.40 m x 20.73 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x3 guns), 261.00lbs / 118.39kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x2 guns), 261.00lbs / 118.39kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,850 lbs / 1,293 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   327.00 ft / 99.67 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   163.00 ft / 49.68 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     10.00 ft / 3.05 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 43,016 shp / 32,090 Kw = 25.66 kts
   Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,719 tons (45% coal)

Complement:
   555 - 722

Cost:
   £1.303 million / $5.213 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 352 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 3,227 tons, 28.0 %
      - Belts: 1,527 tons, 13.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 743 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 869 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 88 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,788 tons, 15.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,395 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,523 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 237 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,580 lbs / 7,067 Kg = 60.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.77 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (44 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.52 ft / 5.95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,489 Square feet or 2,182 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.80
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

100t F/C
25t W/T
12t 12 18" Torpedoes

*Note: Midships 4" can fire cross-deck.*

[Jefgte]

Not sure about internal disposition...
Boilers are probably cramped.


Second funnel between 2nd & 3rd 4" guns is probably better.


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

How's this?

Image based upon parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

[Jefgte]

Yes, better disposition

If you want to correct the height of the funnels for a better look...


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

Picky, picky, picky  ;)
Here ya go.

Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.

[BC Renown]

Sorry Jef  :o but, I find there is absolutely nothing wrong with funnels of unequal height  ;)

See here  8)

[Jefgte]

..."I find there is absolutely nothing wrong with funnels of unequal height" 

That"s right BCR  :D


Sachmle choose: equal or unequal


Jef  ;)