New Zion Destroyer

[Desertfox]

The Zionite 'light cruisers', these are multi-role plataforms capable of minelaying missions. The armament layout is similar to the GC N-class destroyers. While fitted with 20" torpedo tubes, these ships will only carry 18" torpedoes (with sabot), however the capability remains and a few 20" torpedoes might have been acquired from NS. 50 mines can be carrier for minelaying missions. Due to space restrictions, only 3 torpedoes can be carried during minelaying ops.


Lavi II, New Zion Light Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   730 t light; 802 t standard; 859 t normal; 905 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 7.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 100.58 m x 9.14 m  x 2.29 m

Armament:
      3 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 359 lbs / 163 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 240
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11,169 shp / 8,332 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 104 tons

Complement:
   79 - 103

Cost:
   £0.107 million / $0.428 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 45 tons, 5.2 %
   Machinery: 312 tons, 36.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 35.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 129 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 8.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     271 lbs / 123 Kg = 4.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   7.50 ft / 2.29 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m before break)
      - Stern:      7.50 ft / 2.29 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.53 ft / 3.21 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,112 Square feet or 568 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 153 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.82
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Misc:
50t mines
10t wireless
6t torpedoes
2t minesweeping equipment
2t hydrophones (bought from NS)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Compares favourably with the Japanese Matsu of 1943 - same punch on half the displacement.
Borys

[P3D]

Did New Switzerland supply ASW tech to NZ?

[The Rock Doctor]

Generally speaking, the Mods and I are agreeable that NS would be supplying NZ with up-to-date tech; it was clear NS policy, and would apply to Siam as well if Siam wanted it.

However, there's no documentation to suggest NS has ever researched ASW, so no - no hydrophone sales.

I do not believe that much artillery and torpedoes will fit on that hull.  It's unfortunate SS feels otherwise, but if anybody can point me to a real-life example of something similar, I'd be grateful.

[Blooded]

Hello,

hydrophones are 1916 ASW tech. Also it should end up weighing more(similar reasons as Wireless-ie the room for it).

V and W would be close, but they were 1916 and I believe only 4x4" or 4x 4.7" on 50% more displacement, with no mines.

Sabots for torpedos? hmmm...

[The Rock Doctor]

Did the torpedo sabot thing get done at all historically? 

[Korpen]

Did the torpedo sabot thing get done at all historically? 

No idea about surface ships, but it was used on submarines to fire old torpedoes from new boats.
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/specials/special_torpedoes_mines.htm#TheII45torpedo

But that was only for training, doing so with the more violent launch form a surface ships seems less likley, and adopting it as a standard seem downright odd.

[Desertfox]

Ahh!!! My post got eaten!!!

I'm pretty sure sabot torpedoes where used elsewhere in OTL. In any case NS has been using them in N-verse for some time now. But I can always use 20" torps if needed,

In terms of space, these ships are very similar in size to the Netherlands H-class which mounst 5x120mm and 4x18"TT. So everything should fit. Note that when carrying mines not all of the armament is functional.

Rely to ASW coming soon...

[The Rock Doctor]

In terms of space, these ships are very similar in size to the Netherlands H-class which mounst 5x120mm and 4x18"TT.

This is true...

So everything should fit.

...but I still don't really agree.  I think I'll flip through my Jane's this evening.

[Desertfox]

I'll try to have a rough drawing sometime soon.

As far as ASW goes...

The hydrophones are not for ASW, nor do they have the capability to be used as such. All they can do is tell you there is another ship out there, and give very rough estimates of bearing and distance. NS did have hydrophone tech since at that time it was together with Radar. This would not be a full tech transfer but rather just a few early model hydrophones and a couple of advisors.

[Korpen]

Have some real doubt about the practicality of that armament. While everything kind of fits, several of the gun mounts interfere with each other.
Not also that both the 127mm guns and the TT should be a bit bigger, as I used the 12cm guns from my own designs, and 45cm tubes. And I have no idea how the draw hoists, but I imagine that they would enlarge the mount further.

And crowded is a understatement as she would need around 70 men just to man the guns.

A quick sketch:


http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zion2sg9.png Non-rescaled

[Desertfox]

The rearmost main guns should be on the quarterdeck, with the other superfiring over it. I'm not sure how to sim that in SS2. That should help out spacing a bit.

Edit: These are the GC N-class DDS:

The armament layout will be very similar to them. I think I simmed the deckline on the ship wrong, as the torpedoes should be lower, with a flying bridge above them.

[Korpen]

The rearmost main guns should be on the quarterdeck, with the other superfiring over it. I'm not sure how to sim that in SS2. That should help out spacing a bit.

Move the midbreak to 75% and lower it to 2,29 aft, and reduce quarterdeck to about 10-15% lenght. If you want it superfiring i think you will have to mount the gun raised, as just 1m difference is not enough to fire over the head of the poor bastard on the aft gun without burning them to cinders.

[The Rock Doctor]

I understand the layout - but 5" guns are a lot larger than 3" guns, and, as Korpen notes, require a lot more people to operate.

I can see the virtue of having the ship double as a minelayer, but not as a minesweeper; these are not ships you can really afford to have being blown up in minefields.

[Borys]

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/gallery/Halbflotille-XI?page=1

In that album ya'll find many pics of what life on
S138/GTB1906 (max dpl. 900 tones) and later GTB1913 (max dpl. 1200 tonnes) ships looked like.

Borys