light Super Dreadnought Studies

Jefgte · May 21, 2008, 03:04:30 AM

For small navies, built a Super Dreadnought is impossible.
But, give up big guns is also impossible for me... :D

The max limite for Peru is about 19000T & it is possible to built
"light" Super-Dreadnoughts

Here is an original concept with:
2T3x120 in A & B + 2T4x340 in Q & Q.

17000T, Peru BB laid down 1911

Displacement:
   17 000 t light; 17 996 t standard; 19 481 t normal; 20 669 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 85.30 ft x 24.79 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 26.00 m x 7.56 m

Armament:
6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x3 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 10 127 lbs / 4 593 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   4.02" / 102 mm   180.45 ft / 55.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   24.64 ft / 7.51 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   12.6" / 320 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3.35" / 85 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 27 000 shp / 20 142 Kw = 20.95 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 673 tons

Complement:
   823 - 1 071

Cost:
   £1.812 million / $7.247 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 266 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 6 595 tons, 33.9 %
     - Belts: 2 633 tons, 13.5 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 509 tons, 2.6 %
     - Armament: 1 170 tons, 6.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 2 099 tons, 10.8 %
     - Conning Tower: 184 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 096 tons, 5.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 644 tons, 39.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 481 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24 487 lbs / 11 107 Kg = 464.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.46 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Forecastle (15 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
     - Mid (30 %):      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
     - Stern:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.09 ft / 4.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 33 908 Square feet or 3 150 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 817 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Jef ;)

Borys · May 21, 2008, 03:14:41 AM

This must look a bit like some 1880s designs ...
:)

Borys

The Rock Doctor · May 21, 2008, 06:54:51 AM

Could you fit turrets of that size on that beam? And would they not really mess up the machinery locations as a result of being amidships?

Jefgte · May 21, 2008, 07:17:31 AM

Yes, :D
Beam of Normandie BB class was 27m
I install the quad turrets in Q & Q position.
Front & aft Normandie turrets have not 26m beam

So mechanical mount is possible

Interresting drawing with internal arangement to study.

Jef ;)

Blooded · May 21, 2008, 09:30:31 AM

Hello,

Just a note, quads are not possible for yet(next BB architechture level-1911?which some are currently researching-doubletime tech).

I thought I had read somewhere that the biggest guns need to be placed first or it can mess up the report. or are the 4.72 supposed to be full size? confused.

Four twins should be possible. Earls original 'Dreadnought' which I inherited had 4x2 13.4" on 18K hull(one superfire forward)

Jefgte · May 21, 2008, 10:21:24 AM

not possible...

Quad are in 1911 techno...
---------------------
An other one

Huascar - Ld 1915 - engine - 1915 - in service 1918

17000T, Peru BC laid down 1915

Displacement:
   17 000 t light; 17 851 t standard; 19 196 t normal; 20 272 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   639.76 ft / 639.76 ft x 82.02 ft x 25.87 ft (normal load)
   195.00 m / 195.00 m x 25.00 m x 7.88 m

Armament:
6 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
16 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7 838 lbs / 3 555 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 105
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.02" / 229 mm   465.88 ft / 142.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   4.02" / 102 mm   147.64 ft / 45.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   465.88 ft / 142.00 m   25.75 ft / 7.85 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.02" / 229 mm   4.72" / 120 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 9.02" / 229 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 62 959 shp / 46 967 Kw = 26.86 kts
   Range 12 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 422 tons

Complement:
   815 - 1 060

Cost:
   £2.548 million / $10.190 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 979 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 5 353 tons, 27.9 %
     - Belts: 1 981 tons, 10.3 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 699 tons, 3.6 %
     - Armament: 886 tons, 4.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 648 tons, 8.6 %
     - Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2 385 tons, 12.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 883 tons, 41.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 196 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23 397 lbs / 10 613 Kg = 19.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 3.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
     - Forecastle (19 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
     - Mid (40 %):      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Quarterdeck (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Stern:      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
     - Average freeboard:   18.53 ft / 5.65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 804 Square feet or 3 233 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 766 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.35
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Huascar - Ld 1915 - engine - 1915 - in service 1918

Korpen · May 21, 2008, 10:36:01 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on May 21, 2008, 10:21:24 AM
not possible...

Quad are in 1911 techno...

That is when one can start research on a tech, not when one can start using the tech. That takes at least two years for most tech.

QuoteHuascar - Ld 1915 - engine - 1915 - in service 1918

17000T, Peru BC laid down 1915

Think she would be better (well, more cost effective) if one droped the TB and reduced size by 2000 ton instead, no huge loss of fighting power, but significantly less costly. :)

Jefgte · May 30, 2008, 04:23:28 AM

1913-18000T-3T2x305 Peru BB laid down 1913

Displacement:
   18 000 t light; 18 767 t standard; 20 032 t normal; 21 044 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   689.89 ft / 682.41 ft x 85.30 ft x 22.94 ft (normal load)
   210.28 m / 208.00 m x 26.00 m x 6.99 m

Armament:
4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
16 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x4 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6 205 lbs / 2 814 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   8 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.02" / 229 mm   485.56 ft / 148.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   485.56 ft / 148.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   485.56 ft / 148.00 m   22.08 ft / 6.73 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.02" / 229 mm
   2nd:   11.8" / 300 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.02" / 229 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm     -           -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm     -           -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 73 000 shp / 54 458 Kw = 27.75 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 276 tons

Complement:
   841 - 1 094

Cost:
   £1.835 million / $7.339 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 776 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 5 800 tons, 29.0 %
     - Belts: 2 207 tons, 11.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 625 tons, 3.1 %
     - Armament: 1 078 tons, 5.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 1 734 tons, 8.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 156 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2 861 tons, 14.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 124 tons, 40.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 032 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 440 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27 310 lbs / 12 388 Kg = 31.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.12 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      27.89 ft / 8.50 m
     - Forecastle (18 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
     - Mid (50 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Quarterdeck (18 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
     - Average freeboard:   19.63 ft / 5.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 39 688 Square feet or 3 687 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.12
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily