Next Maori Point Cruiser

[Valles]

I have two designs I'm considering for this purpose, one new hull that's rather chunky and stable and the other slimmer but kinda unsteady, being based on the same hull as my older ones.

Penitent Son, Maoria Point Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   10,605 t light; 10,860 t standard; 12,775 t normal; 14,308 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   463.80 ft / 459.32 ft x 65.62 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
   141.37 m / 140.00 m x 20.00 m  x 7.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (4x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      16 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 4,442 lbs / 2,015 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   321.52 ft / 98.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   137.76 ft / 41.99 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   6.69" / 170 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm         -               -
   3rd:   2.76" / 70 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 18,519 shp / 13,815 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,448 tons

Complement:
   600 - 781

Cost:
   £0.941 million / $3.764 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 555 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 4,184 tons, 32.7 %
      - Belts: 1,675 tons, 13.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,532 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 838 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 139 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 738 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,722 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,171 tons, 17.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 405 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     25,166 lbs / 11,415 Kg = 52.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.646
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 28
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 3.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.88 ft / 6.06 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 53.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,004 Square feet or 2,137 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 656 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 2.24
      - Overall: 1.06
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

130 tons misc. unplanned weights
25 tons Marconi
250 tons fire control

That's the old hull.

And this is the new...

Thunder Rage, Maori Point Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   14,425 t light; 15,000 t standard; 17,288 t normal; 19,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   496.78 ft / 492.13 ft x 72.18 ft x 26.25 ft (normal load)
   151.42 m / 150.00 m x 22.00 m  x 8.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (4x2 guns), 476.75lbs / 216.25kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      16 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
   Weight of broadside 4,432 lbs / 2,010 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   196.82 ft / 59.99 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   295.28 ft / 90.00 m   25.36 ft / 7.73 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   6.69" / 170 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm         -               -
   3rd:   2.76" / 70 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 31,668 shp / 23,624 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,119 tons

Complement:
   753 - 979

Cost:
   £1.147 million / $4.588 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 554 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 6,895 tons, 39.9 %
      - Belts: 2,726 tons, 15.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 545 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 1,474 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,980 tons, 11.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 170 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,263 tons, 7.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,313 tons, 30.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,862 tons, 16.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,142 lbs / 16,394 Kg = 75.8 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 3.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Stern:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.23 ft / 7.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,186 Square feet or 2,526 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 611 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

250 tons long-range fire control
25 tons long-range wireless
25 tons ship's boats
50 tons crew comfort/heating and cooling
150 tons random weights

Opinions?

[The Rock Doctor]

Certainly the second is more capable, but considering it's 40% larger, it ought to be. 

Does the DKB Moltke class have any influence on the designs?

[Valles]

I'd already decided that the new Maori 'standard practice' would be to armor against the next largest class of gun than the ship carried, and given that their mission description is 'kick the crap out of standard cruisers' a certain degree of convergence is to be expected.

OTOH, the choice of a full battleship fire-control apparatus was aimed at the DKB's battlecruisers - their speed will give them the ability to choose their range, so being capable of long-range fencing will be needful.

*tinkers some with a 'split the difference' design*

[Jefgte]

300mm belt - 22kts - 4T2x250...

That's a battleship with semi-heavy guns.

hmmm... for a 1912 cruiser, the speed is short. 24kts or 25 kts is the minimum.

You could choose also 3T2x battleship guns - ala Renown



Jef  ;)

[Valles]

The Maori haven't had very good luck with just six heavy guns per broadside - makes it a little hard to judge salvo placement properly. They're also very, very down on the mass and design costs of high speed ('Speed is Waste')- 22 kts is already four faster than their current battle-line.