Habsburg plans for 1916/17

[Borys]

Ahoj!
If I get lucky with tech rolls ...

Babenberg, Habsburgs Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   40 142 t light; 42 494 t standard; 44 491 t normal; 46 088 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,08 ft / 720,00 ft x 122,00 ft x 30,51 ft (normal load)
   219,79 m / 219,46 m x 37,19 m  x 9,30 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,50" / 419 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 500,00lbs / 1 133,98kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 21 654 lbs / 9 822 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   220,00 ft / 67,06 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   9,50 ft / 2,90 m
     Main Belt covers 107% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,75" / 44 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   50,00 ft / 15,24 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   7,00" / 178 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 16,00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 50 961 shp / 38 017 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 593 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 531 - 1 991

Cost:
   £6,148 million / $24,593 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 469 tons, 5,5%
   Armour: 17 830 tons, 40,1%
      - Belts: 8 374 tons, 18,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 619 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 3 610 tons, 8,1%
      - Armour Deck: 3 795 tons, 8,5%
      - Conning Tower: 433 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 1 989 tons, 4,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 403 tons, 39,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 349 tons, 9,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     70 658 lbs / 32 050 Kg = 31,5 x 16,5 " / 419 mm shells or 14,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 8,8 ft / 2,7 m
   Roll period: 17,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,00 ft / 9,45 m
      - Forecastle (16%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Quarterdeck (13%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Stern:      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,44 ft / 6,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154,8%
   Waterplane Area: 63 112 Square feet or 5 863 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1 052 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

*Runs away, screaming in terror*

[Sachmle]

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,90 : 1

(Does best P3D impersonation  ;))
L:B below 6:1, awful, just awful. She's to fat.  ;D

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The "slimmer" version:

Babenberg, Habsburgs Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   39 776 t light; 42 121 t standard; 44 103 t normal; 45 689 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,08 ft / 720,00 ft x 120,00 ft x 30,75 ft (normal load)
   219,79 m / 219,46 m x 36,58 m  x 9,37 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,50" / 419 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 500,00lbs / 1 133,98kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 21 654 lbs / 9 822 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   220,00 ft / 67,06 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   9,50 ft / 2,90 m
     Main Belt covers 107% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,75" / 44 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   50,00 ft / 15,24 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   7,00" / 178 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 16,00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 50 540 shp / 37 703 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 568 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 521 - 1 978

Cost:
   £6,124 million / $24,494 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 469 tons, 5,6%
   Armour: 17 753 tons, 40,3%
      - Belts: 8 362 tons, 19,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 619 tons, 3,7%
      - Armament: 3 610 tons, 8,2%
      - Armour Deck: 3 732 tons, 8,5%
      - Conning Tower: 430 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 1 973 tons, 4,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17 131 tons, 38,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 327 tons, 9,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68 623 lbs / 31 127 Kg = 30,6 x 16,5 " / 419 mm shells or 13,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 8,4 ft / 2,5 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,581
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,00 ft / 9,45 m
      - Forecastle (16%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Quarterdeck (13%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Stern:      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,44 ft / 6,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153,3%
   Waterplane Area: 62 077 Square feet or 5 767 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 214 lbs/sq ft or 1 045 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

You realize I was kidding, right?  :P Still quite scary indeed.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I know.

Everything hinges on 16,5" being covered by 16" gun technology. If not, I'll build repeat Nagatos, or 4x4x13,5" :)

Borys

[Borys]

Babenberg, Habsburgs Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   41 200 t light; 43 738 t standard; 45 773 t normal; 47 401 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,08 ft / 720,00 ft x 120,00 ft x 30,75 ft (normal load)
   219,79 m / 219,46 m x 36,58 m  x 9,37 m

Armament:
      16 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1 400,00lbs / 635,03kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 24 054 lbs / 10 911 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   220,00 ft / 67,06 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Upper:   8,00" / 203 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   9,50 ft / 2,90 m
     Main Belt covers 107% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,75" / 44 mm   500,00 ft / 152,40 m   50,00 ft / 15,24 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15,0" / 381 mm   7,00" / 178 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 16,00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 52 099 shp / 38 866 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 6 500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 663 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   1 564 - 2 034

Cost:
   £6,514 million / $26,054 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 683 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 18 015 tons, 39,4%
      - Belts: 8 373 tons, 18,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 619 tons, 3,5%
      - Armament: 3 772 tons, 8,2%
      - Armour Deck: 3 810 tons, 8,3%
      - Conning Tower: 441 tons, 1,0%
   Machinery: 2 034 tons, 4,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 018 tons, 39,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 573 tons, 10,0%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     68 363 lbs / 31 009 Kg = 55,6 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 13,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 8,2 ft / 2,5 m
   Roll period: 17,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      31,00 ft / 9,45 m
      - Forecastle (16%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Mid (50%):      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Quarterdeck (13%):   19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Stern:      19,72 ft / 6,01 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,44 ft / 6,23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152,2%
   Waterplane Area: 63 369 Square feet or 5 887 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 221 lbs/sq ft or 1 080 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Walter]

I guess that with a vessel like that, Habsburg won't be needing the Siligia any more... and I think that Japan will just keep her rather than handing her over to Habsburg. ;D

[Sachmle]

For a scary thought, Big Gun says a 16.5"/40cal w/ a 2500lbs shell will go through 15.59" of belt and 1.92" of deck armor at 12kyds. Ouch!

[Valles]

Good thing my equivalent designs are all planned to carry more than that, then. ^_^

[Ithekro]

Looks like Rohan will have to produce those 15.5" guns at the very least.  Then if things continue, the 17" guns.

[Korpen]

For a scary thought, Big Gun says a 16.5"/40cal w/ a 2500lbs shell will go through 15.59" of belt and 1.92" of deck armor at 12kyds. Ouch!

Hm not the same numbers i ended up with:
42cm shell, MV of 715 m/s, BC of 13 and 1134kg shell (~50kg cap).
Belt

Penetration   Range  yds.   Striking f/s   Descent °
     25.5       2,500        2,185      1° 24.3'
     23.0       5,000        2,034      3° 4.1'
     20.8       7,500        1,894      5° 3.5'
     18.6      10,000        1,763      7° 27.5'
     16.7      12,500        1,645     10° 21.7'
     15.1      15,000        1,546     13° 39.2'
     13.5      17,500        1,462     17° 32.8'
     12.1      20,000        1,399     21° 56.3'
     10.9      22,500        1,357     26° 42.5'

Deck

Penetration   Range  yds.   Striking f/s   Descent °
     0.5       2,500        2,185      1° 24.3'
     1.1       5,000        2,034      3° 4.1'
     1.6       7,500        1,894      5° 3.5'
     2.2      10,000        1,763      7° 27.5'
     2.8      12,500        1,645     10° 21.7'
     3.1      15,000        1,546     13° 39.2'
     3.5      17,500        1,462     17° 32.8'
     3.9      20,000        1,399     21° 56.3'
     4.5      22,500        1,357     26° 42.5'

[Ithekro]

15,000 yard dueling range looks normal here with good deck and belt armor penetration.

[Sachmle]

And that's the difference between Big Gun and NAaB, I usually run both and shoot for an average of both.

[Korpen]

And that's the difference between Big Gun and NAaB, I usually run both and shoot for an average of both.

I prefer NAaB as that gives much clearer handling of the variables.
As it is based on and using much from biggun, I think much of the differences are a result of differences in input and handling of input.  I feel it is hard to know what the simplified numbers one enters in biggun stand for, and it is much easier to play around with the numbers in NAaB.