New Netherlands Sloop

[Korpen]

Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)

Personally, I do think it a bit light.
I think it should be adjusted up to about 2" or 50mm... ships historically had that much.

On that, we are in perfect agreement. :)

And the Java would be a monster to take on with those gun shields, as long as it was another cruiser fighting them. That much armor would slow down the train on an unpowered mount... heck, it gets heavy training a Humvee turret with 12mm shield and 50 kg of heavy machine gun!

Well, it is what the real Java had: http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Javacl.html
I suspect you did not have a balanced mount or a training wheel the size of truck steering wheel on you MG (if you did, you have to post a picture of it ;)).
I think much of the "too heavy to train"-argument is overblown, there were plenty of ship with quite heavy gun shields, Java is only one among many, and far from the heaviest.
Or rather: sure it slows down train, but was that significant?

[Korpen]

The end result of Java making baby ships with Fylgia.  :-*


Sweet love, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   6 100 t light; 6 362 t standard; 7 257 t normal; 7 973 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   508,53 ft / 508,53 ft x 52,49 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   155,00 m / 155,00 m x 16,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all forward
   Weight of broadside 992 lbs / 450 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   396,98 ft / 121,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,38" / 35 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   0,39" / 10 mm      1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 56 575 shp / 42 205 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 9 220nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 610 tons

Complement:
   393 - 511

Cost:
   £0,811 million / $3,245 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 1,8 %
   Armour: 859 tons, 11,8 %
      - Belts: 468 tons, 6,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 32 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 319 tons, 4,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 2 256 tons, 31,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 533 tons, 34,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 157 tons, 15,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 323 tons, 4,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 075 lbs / 2 756 Kg = 59,0 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,29
   Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 12,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,483
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m (18,04 ft / 5,50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (72 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,47 ft / 5,02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 521 Square feet or 1 628 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 432 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,42
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

- 100 ton FC.
- 35 ton radios (1large, 1small).
- 150 ton Mines.
- 25 ton radio collision warning system.
- 163 ton Mines

Gun shields on average 25mm.

[Borys]

can't see piccie

[Korpen]

can't see piccie

Try now. ;)

[Borys]

Nice. Me like piccie.
I would have used 8-9 singles, of course :)
The extensive superstructure makes me think of passanger ships. So to me she looks like a - cough, cough - peace cruiser. With good accomodation, for distant stations.
Borys

[Korpen]

I would have used 8-9 singles, of course :)

Well, yhay would be an option, see the previous design here (the Java one). :)

The extensive superstructure makes me think of passanger ships. So to me she looks like a - cough, cough - peace cruiser. With good accomodation, for distant stations.

Well, it is not a ship for distant stations, but for fleet minelaying. The question is if it should not be worth to drop the FC to get 100tons more of mines, making the ship better at its primary missions, as well as carrying more torpedoes for the Destroyers that will do the real work.   

[Korpen]

Mainly looking into if it might be for the cost of three DDs, worth to build a cruiser. Armour covers the engine space only. Compared to DDs she is slower, but better protected, her total throw weight is significantly lower, but 15cm guns are somewhat more efficient against armour. Also it is a single larger egg, with not at all that thick a shell.

XXXXIV, Netherlands Slopp laid down 1916


Displacement:
   4 500 t light; 4 701 t standard; 5 314 t normal; 5 805 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   459,32 ft / 459,32 ft x 45,93 ft x 18,21 ft (normal load)
   140,00 m / 140,00 m x 14,00 m  x 5,55 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0,59" / 15,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,10lbs / 0,05kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 993 lbs / 450 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 160

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   331,36 ft / 101,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,98" / 25 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      2,76" / 70 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      2,76" / 70 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0,79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 4,13" / 105 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42 882 shp / 31 990 Kw = 29,10 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 104 tons

Complement:
   310 - 404

Cost:
   £0,801 million / $3,203 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 538 tons, 10,1 %
      - Belts: 263 tons, 4,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 46 tons, 0,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 202 tons, 3,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 1 598 tons, 30,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 959 tons, 36,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 814 tons, 15,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 276 tons, 5,2 %
      - 100 ton FC
      - 156 ton mines
      - 20 ton large commuications suite

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 958 lbs / 1 795 Kg = 38,4 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 14,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Forecastle (14 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Mid (20 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m (14,76 ft / 4,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,60 ft / 4,76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 13 857 Square feet or 1 287 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 405 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,59
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent