New Netherlands Sloop

[Korpen]

Possible design to strengthen the mine warfare capacity of the main fleet. An evolution from the Groningen class, with one gun less, but the same broadside as weather shielded twin mounts have been adopted for A and F positions. 

Java2, Kingdom Sloop laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4 000 t light; 4 217 t standard; 4 891 t normal; 5 431 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 43,82 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 13,36 m  x 5,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 794 lbs / 360 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   318,24 ft / 97,00 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,59" / 15 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33 665 shp / 25 114 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 214 tons

Complement:
   292 - 380

Cost:
   £0,527 million / $2,110 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 103 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 651 tons, 13,3 %
      - Belts: 374 tons, 7,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 39 tons, 0,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 219 tons, 4,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1 342 tons, 27,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 603 tons, 32,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 892 tons, 18,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 6,1 %
      - Fire control: 100 ton
      - Radio; one large, one small: 35 ton
      - Mines: up to 155 ton
      - Ten torpedos: 10 ton

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 586 lbs / 1 627 Kg = 34,8 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 1,9 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 13,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,99 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20,90 ft / 6,37 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Stern:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,68 ft / 4,78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 039 Square feet or 1 118 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 374 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,01
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate


So what do YOU think?

[Carthaginian]

Not bad, except that the gun shields are outside the rules.

"Twin gun mounts requires hoists, and they are power operated. Their armor is limited to splinter protection - 1"."

Aside from that, I like it a lot.

[Korpen]

Not bad, except that the gun shields are outside the rules.

"Twin gun mounts requires hoists, and they are power operated. Their armor is limited to splinter protection - 1"."

Aside from that, I like it a lot.

Hu?
Do not see the problem, the mouts only have spliner and shrapnell protection, and identical to all of my other sloops.

Btw: Am i the only one who thinks the ship looks like it have rammed a wall and gotten squeezed together?

[P3D]

/quote]
Too extensive superstructure for a cruiser of the era, looks a bit too modern, like she came from WWII.

[Korpen]

Made the superstructure much smaller.
Also realised that fitting into a type 1 dry-dock was an unnecessary requirement (only matters if the ship is stationed in the south Atlantic). The lengthening allowed a slight increase in the main belt. 

Java2, Kingdom Sloop laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4 000 t light; 4 217 t standard; 4 895 t normal; 5 437 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   412,24 ft / 412,24 ft x 42,65 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
   125,65 m / 125,65 m x 13,00 m  x 5,50 m

Armament:
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (2x2 guns), 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
      4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 794 lbs / 360 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   321,52 ft / 98,00 m   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm   0,59" / 15 mm      1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 32 459 shp / 24 214 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 220 tons

Complement:
   292 - 380

Cost:
   £0,519 million / $2,075 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 103 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 684 tons, 14,0 %
      - Belts: 405 tons, 8,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 39 tons, 0,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 221 tons, 4,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 18 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1 294 tons, 26,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 614 tons, 33,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 895 tons, 18,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 305 tons, 6,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 639 lbs / 1 651 Kg = 35,3 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 1,7 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 13,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20,90 ft / 6,37 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Mid (45 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Stern:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,27 ft / 4,65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 12 156 Square feet or 1 129 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 369 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,80
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

      - Fire control: 100 ton
      - Radio; one large, one small: 35 ton
      - Mines: up to 165 ton
      - Ten torpedos: 10 ton
      - Paravanes: 5 ton

[Walter]

Am i the only one who thinks the ship looks like it have rammed a wall and gotten squeezed together?

Yes, it does look like it had an accident with a wall. :)
Not a bad vessel, though.

[The Rock Doctor]

Aren't paravanes minesweeping equipment?  I don't think you'd want to be using a ship of this size/cost for that task.

[Korpen]

Aren't paravanes minesweeping equipment?  I don't think you'd want to be using a ship of this size/cost for that task.

Yes and no.
Paravanes can be mounted close to the bow on both sides to prevent contact mines from being sucked up against the hull as the ship passes the mine. They can also be deployed when ships are steaming in line or echelon to protect each other. So they (and basically every other ship I got) will have them and use them not to sweep mines, but to reduce the risk of hitting a mine when in suspect waters.

[Walter]

It's pretty much as Korpen said: for protection and not for sweeping.

In the "Tamiya News Supplement: Random Japanese Warship Details Vol.2" there are a few nice drawings in there regarding the paravanes. There is one of the cruiser Suzuya dragging along two paravanes (one port and one starboard) along 50 meter cables. The paravanes are about 28 meters from the centerline of the vessel. Also present are a few drawings of the paravane storing locations on the cruisers Suzuya and Myoko and on the battleship Mutsu.

[Carthaginian]

Again, the armor on the guns is against the rules.
Please fix it.
The whole point of limiting the armor on 'mount and hoist' guns was to ensure that the next level of tech was researched.
Sorry Korpen, I like the ship, but you need to fix that.


Unless everyone is in agreement and thinks that we should allow up to, say, 50mm of armor on powered mounts.

[Korpen]

Again, the armor on the guns is against the rules.
Please fix it.
The whole point of limiting the armor on 'mount and hoist' guns was to ensure that the next level of tech was researched.
Sorry Korpen, I like the ship, but you need to fix that.


Unless everyone is in agreement and thinks that we should allow up to, say, 50mm of armor on powered mounts.

And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?

[Carthaginian]

And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?

The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.

[Korpen]

And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?

The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.

Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)

[Korpen]

And they still only have splinter protection, what is the problem?

The rules state 1"/25mm.
That's the cut-off, so that's the limit.

Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)

Well, wth, i can just post if for fun :)

IRL Java, kind of..., Netherlands Fodder laid down 1912

Displacement:
   6 537 t light; 6 783 t standard; 7 450 t normal; 7 983 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   509,51 ft / 501,97 ft x 52,49 ft x 20,41 ft (normal load)
   155,30 m / 153,00 m x 16,00 m  x 6,22 m

Armament:
      4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2,95" / 75,0 mm guns in single mounts, 13,23lbs / 6,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1 045 lbs / 474 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   426,51 ft / 130,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm         -               -
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 66 305 shp / 49 464 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 6 675nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 200 tons

Complement:
   400 - 521

Cost:
   £0,712 million / $2,850 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 135 tons, 1,8 %
   Armour: 1 025 tons, 13,8 %
      - Belts: 496 tons, 6,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 135 tons, 1,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 353 tons, 4,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 2 644 tons, 35,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 633 tons, 35,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 913 tons, 12,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 411 lbs / 2 454 Kg = 52,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,27
   Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 12,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,97

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,40 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11,30 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Mid (70 %):      19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Stern:      10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,29 ft / 5,27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 319 Square feet or 1 609 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 444 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,54
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Carthaginian]

Ok, never saw any limit to 25mm anywere, so that was a new one.
Then it was a good thing I did not post my re-sim of the IRL Java, as she got 10cm thick gunshields for her deck mounts. :)

Personally, I do think it a bit light.
I think it should be adjusted up to about 2" or 50mm... ships historically had that much.

And the Java would be a monster to take on with those gun shields, as long as it was another cruiser fighting them. That much armor would slow down the train on an unpowered mount... heck, it gets heavy training a Humvee turret with 12mm shield and 50 kg of heavy machine gun!