Raiders for Peru

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
Nice colonial aviso, as it would be called by the KKK.

Borys

And he means his navy, not THOSE KKK.  ;D

Well, being KKK would maybe be an improvement from being a dick (kuk)? ;)

[Sachmle]

America's KKK is a bunch of dicks.  ;) But enough thread-jacking from me.

[Jefgte]

Chincha Suyu, Peru 3700T Long range DD raider laid down 1919

Displacement:
   3 700 t light; 3 818 t standard; 4 364 t normal; 4 801 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   472.44 ft / 472.44 ft x 49.21 ft x 15.87 ft (normal load)
   144.00 m / 144.00 m x 15.00 m  x 4.84 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1919 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 440 lbs / 200 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   469.16 ft / 143.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 153 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 54 000 shp / 40 284 Kw = 32.07 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 983 tons

Complement:
   268 - 349

Cost:
   £0.959 million / $3.838 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 55 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 594 tons, 13.6 %
      - Belts: 266 tons, 6.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 315 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 886 tons, 43.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 055 tons, 24.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 664 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 110 tons, 2.5 %
2 Tons for high rangefinders
78 mines
10 tons for 2 observation baloons
20 tons for normal reserves for very long cruise

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 619 lbs / 735 Kg = 15.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 152.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14 436 Square feet or 1 341 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 44 lbs/sq ft or 215 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 0.56
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Borys]

Now, this is a flotilla leader!
And interesting concept.
Any feedbacks fom wise guys about 
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea

and long anti commerce patrols?

Borys

[Sachmle]

While I think it's a good idea, unfortunately IMO for it to use DD rules (i.e lower than 1.00 overall strength) it needs to be in DD weight class. IIRC Peru only has 750t DD tech, but even if they have 1000t DD tech she's still WAY overweight. I think you'd have to sim her as more of a PC than a DD. Also, no matter which class she falls in the FC weight is much to low. It's 25t for DD FC and 100t for PC FC.

[Jefgte]

This is a SS test.
Well, this is a very heavy DD with light cruiser performances. Note Sachmle, this is for 1919.
A special Techno could be add for this concept...reserved for Peru... & to sell for very good Friends  :D


Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

For the 1915-1919 program, a more classical concept

4300T, Peru Raider laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 300 t light; 4 418 t standard; 4 959 t normal; 5 393 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   544.62 ft / 544.62 ft x 52.49 ft x 14.67 ft (normal load)
   166.00 m / 166.00 m x 16.00 m  x 4.47 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 88 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm   472.44 ft / 144.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 133 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 52 000 shp / 38 792 Kw = 31.70 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 975 tons

Complement:
   295 - 384

Cost:
   £0.884 million / $3.537 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 24 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 246 tons, 5.0 %
      - Belts: 236 tons, 4.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 937 tons, 39.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 972 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 659 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 217 lbs / 1 913 Kg = 80.0 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.34 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Stern:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.80 ft / 4.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 751 Square feet or 1 649 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 357 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

New & economical concept.
Not a Cruiser raider but a 1500t DD Raider.
------------------------------------------------------
1500T, Peru DD raider laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 552 t standard; 1 841 t normal; 2 073 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   402.10 ft / 400.26 ft x 40.03 ft x 10.18 ft (normal load)
   122.56 m / 122.00 m x 12.20 m  x 3.10 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 74 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30 030 shp / 22 402 Kw = 31.23 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 521 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.290 million / $1.161 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 929 tons, 50.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 480 tons, 26.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 341 tons, 18.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 3.5 %
- Tall mast - 5t
- radio - 10t
- 30 minen
- 15t for 2 observation baloons, warm air - cable 300m- viewing 48km
- 5t reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     602 lbs / 273 Kg = 11.4 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.58
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.395
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.01 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m (11.81 ft / 3.60 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.05 ft / 4.28 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 175.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 9 835 Square feet or 914 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.86
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Guinness]

The update rules say you don't have to allocate Misc weight for a short range wireless set anymore, so you might consider reusing that 10t for more torpedoes, more mines, or maybe another gun.

Otherwise, that's an awfully good long-legged destroyer. Maybe make a family of similar ships? A few like this one with lots of extra range, and a larger number of more heavily armed ships for fleet roles?

[Korpen]

New & economical concept.
Not a Cruiser raider but a 1500t DD Raider.
------------------------------------------------------
1500T, Peru DD raider laid down 1915 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 552 t standard; 1 841 t normal; 2 073 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   402.10 ft / 400.26 ft x 40.03 ft x 10.18 ft (normal load)
   122.56 m / 122.00 m x 12.20 m  x 3.10 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 74 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Seriously undergunned for its size IMO.

[Jefgte]

Job:
- Intercept commerce of enemy
- Raids on enemy coast - harbours & factories bombardements.
- Mines at strategic point


...& escape enemy reaction.

This ship is not attached to a Battle Squadron.

So, powerfull armament to engage enemy DD is secondary.


Jef  ;)

[Korpen]

Still, one can get a better armed ship without giving up allot of anything else. Just compare to my own 1500 ton 1916 engine DD:
For a loss of 0,8kts she have almost three times the firepower and longer legs.

I-Class, Netherlands Jager laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 588 t standard; 1 941 t normal; 2 224 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 33,46 ft x 12,14 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 10,20 m  x 3,70 m

Armament:
      8 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (4x2 guns), 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 494 lbs / 224 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27 812 shp / 20 748 Kw = 30,40 kts
   Range 9 470nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 636 tons

Complement:
   146 - 190

Cost:
   £0,279 million / $1,117 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 53 tons, 2,7 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0,4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 7 tons, 0,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 876 tons, 45,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 509 tons, 26,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 441 tons, 22,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 2,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     489 lbs / 222 Kg = 9,3 x 4,7 " / 120 mm shells or 0,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,30
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 11,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,425
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,03 ft / 5,80 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      17,06 ft / 5,20 m (9,19 ft / 2,80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
      - Stern:      9,19 ft / 2,80 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,45 ft / 3,80 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 242 Square feet or 766 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 76 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 169 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 0,86
      - Overall: 0,53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30 030 shp / 22 402 Kw = 31.23 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 521 tons

Disels on a high power, high speed ship? Unless is am very much mistaken Diesels share the same flaws and virtues as other reciprocating engines, period diesels seem highly unfit for high-speed applications compared to turbines.

[Jefgte]

Diesels are on the 1st SS, on the next, I use turbine.


Jef  ;)