New Destroyers for Rohan in 1912

[Jefgte]

Comments about the drawing;

The side 102mm guns are just on the 2nd boilers space & partialy out of the hull due to the 2nd stack.

I propose to place them on side, between the TT & the rescue boats near the stacks.


Jef  ;)

[Ithekro]

After tinkering with the design, the best I can do is a slightly faster design with one less gun, or keep the slightly better armed design.  (Yes I attempted 24,000, 30,000, and 40,000 shp designs...I could not get them fuctional enough to justify their existance in this size of design with a marked amount of firepower and range to make them superior to my existing destroyers save for speed and being poor in weather.  If I want that sort of power I'll need to design a light cruiser that is more firepower, speed, range balanced, Or a 1,200 - 1,500 ton (light) destroyer leader).


This is the faster, longer ranged but lighter armed version of the design.

Éomund

Rohan Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,302 t normal; 1,504 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 100.58 m x 9.14 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 140 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 467 tons)

Complement:
   107 - 140

Cost:
   £0.138 million / $0.551 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 628 tons, 48.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 291 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 302 tons, 23.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 4.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     369 lbs / 168 Kg = 8.1 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.460
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.32 ft / 3.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,369 Square feet or 592 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 72 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 0.88
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

This is the faster, longer ranged but lighter armed version of the design.

Éomund

Rohan Destroyer laid down 1912

   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.52
      - Longitudinal: 0.88
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

You still got a bit of hull strength to play with, might I suggest using it to the freeboard a bit (at least the forecastle)? Would increas her seakeeping, and give more space to accommodations. Also, if looking outside SS, some higher freeboard up front will allow for a ship to maintain speed in seaway longer without getting drowned.

Using an awful lot of misc weight on the design, going for large radios?

[Ithekro]

Large amounts of provision/crew space (food, water, and other essentials) to allow for longer on station time.  Also to allow for any ASW type weapons that might be fitted at some point. (Rumors of Swiss ships getting sunk my submarine have leaked out by now I would think).

The extra hull is also so that the design can be added on to, but the trick why it is at 0.52 is the balancing act.  To get it to exactly 0.5 it tricky when one is trying to keep a few other constants (1,000 tons light and 20,000 shp)  I kept hitting 0.49 with most imperial measurements or 0.53, so I tweeked it until I got a perfect 29 knots out of 20,000 shp and called it even.

Secondary question:

Would Rohan's current colliers be adequate in size for the fleet if new ones were built as tenders and oiler?  I've been thinking of just repeat building these designs (maybe just the ex-ACM design with 4.5" guns, or just unarmed).

[The Rock Doctor]

I think that depends on how large a force you intend to supply with a single collier.  One Generoso-style ship could probably service one of the "two BB + small stuff" forces you have parked at various ports.

[Korpen]

Large amounts of provision/crew space (food, water, and other essentials) to allow for longer on station time.  Also to allow for any ASW type weapons that might be fitted at some point. (Rumors of Swiss ships getting sunk my submarine have leaked out by now I would think).

Ah, ok for ASW.
I must admit I am a bit against the trend of including less and less in the general outfit of the ship, and more and more in misc weight.
That said, provisions should never be included in misc weight, as they are disposable, better to use fuel to simulate that. At least that is what I think.

The extra hull is also so that the design can be added on to, but the trick why it is at 0.52 is the balancing act.  To get it to exactly 0.5 it tricky when one is trying to keep a few other constants (1,000 tons light and 20,000 shp)  I kept hitting 0.49 with most imperial measurements or 0.53, so I tweeked it until I got a perfect 29 knots out of 20,000 shp and called it even.

Well those constants is not affected by freeboard, raising the forecastle just 30-50cm should be possible without any alteration that affect the displacement of shp. :)

[Ithekro]

New Belted Cruiser design for 1912

Taniquetil

Rohan Belted Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   8,294 t light; 8,700 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,102 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   490.00 ft / 490.00 ft x 67.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   149.35 m / 149.35 m x 20.42 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4x2 guns), 210.94lbs / 95.68kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,422 lbs / 1,098 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm     70.00 ft / 21.34 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 132 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.75" / 19 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 45,000 shp / 33,570 Kw = 26.75 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,441 tons)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.796 million / $3.183 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 303 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 2,388 tons, 25.1 %
      - Belts: 882 tons, 9.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 674 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 783 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1,794 tons, 18.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,609 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,206 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,969 lbs / 5,429 Kg = 56.7 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,173 Square feet or 1,967 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs/sq ft or 547 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Ithekro]

Final destroyer 1912 modification (freeboard change only)

Éomund

Rohan Destroyer laid down 1912

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,302 t normal; 1,504 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 100.58 m x 9.14 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 140 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 467 tons)

Complement:
   107 - 140

Cost:
   £0.138 million / $0.551 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 628 tons, 48.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 291 tons, 22.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 302 tons, 23.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 4.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     379 lbs / 172 Kg = 8.3 x 4.5 " / 114 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.50
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.460
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.68 ft / 3.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,369 Square feet or 592 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 72 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.95
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

The cruiser seems sturdy enough.  What's her intended function?

[Ithekro]

Long range scouting and escort for when a battlecruiser would seem like overkill.  The belted cruiser was intended as a long range crusier from the first design.  The armor has come up form 3 inch to 5 inch due to combat experiance (the first cruiser did a Hood type explosion in her first major engagement).

Also because Rohan has not been able to design a decent light cruiser class since 1902.  In the next year or so we may start to see some actual light crusiers out of Rohan instead of all heavy cruisers, capital ships and destroyers.

Of course they also need a fleet train....

[The Rock Doctor]

Light cruisers?  Rohan?  Blasphemy!

[Ithekro]

Well maybe new age protected cruisers instead.