Protected Cruisers for Peru

[Jefgte]

Shinchi Roca LD 1913H1 - In service 1915


8000T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   8 000 t light; 8 481 t standard; 9 257 t normal; 9 877 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 59.06 ft x 17.62 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 18.00 m  x 5.37 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 885 lbs / 1 762 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   314.96 ft / 96.00 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   213.25 ft / 65.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30 000 shp / 22 380 Kw = 24.51 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 395 tons

Complement:
   471 - 613

Cost:
   £0.930 million / $3.720 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 486 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 2 295 tons, 24.8 %
      - Belts: 1 108 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 463 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 671 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 176 tons, 12.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 874 tons, 41.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 257 tons, 13.6 %
   
Miscellaneous weights: 170 tons, 1.8 %
Reinforced masts with high observation posts - 30t
Marconi - long range wireless - 20t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 30t
Magazine climat control - 45t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 20t
Reserve - 25t

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 813 lbs / 5 358 Kg = 31.8 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Stern:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.30 ft / 4.97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 038 Square feet or 2 140 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 558 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.12
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[miketr]

Too slow to out run even some of the oldest BC's and not able to fight them off.  Looks like a floating target.

[Borys]

I'd make the armour thinner, and try to add 2 knots.
Borys

[Jefgte]

Mike wrote:
"Too slow to out run even some of the oldest BC's and not able to fight them off.  Looks like a floating target.
"

This is not an ocean runner,
This is a battleline cruiser

Battleline is 20-21kts
Battleline cruiser is 24-25kts


Jef  ;)

[miketr]

The problem is if all you want a ship to guard BB's then go for only a 2 or 3 knot edge in speed.  The just short of 5 knot edge is sorta useful for scouting but if it runs into an enemy screen it's to slow to force combat and too slow to escape if over matched.  It's 5 or 6 knots slower than the latest gen of DD's, 2 to 3 knots slower than the most new CL/PC designs and 4 or 5 knots slower than some on the drawing boards.

Michael

[Jefgte]

I agree with you- but the choice is to have a powerfull defence cruiser in the squadron.
-8000t
-8x230+12x120+12x90
-good cruiser protection
-speed 4kts faster than BB.
-----------
If I increase speed, I decrease armament & protection.
I can remove 90mm guns & decrease the protection from 150 to 120mm


Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

Shinchi Roca LD 1913H1 - In service 1915

8000T cruiser, Peru Squadron Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   7 989 t light; 8 461 t standard; 9 235 t normal; 9 854 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 59.06 ft x 17.58 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 18.00 m  x 5.36 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 657 lbs / 1 659 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   190.29 ft / 58.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     6.56 ft / 2.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 39 000 shp / 29 094 Kw = 26.23 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 394 tons

Complement:
   470 - 612

Cost:
   £0.957 million / $3.829 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 457 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 1 896 tons, 20.5 %
      - Belts: 799 tons, 8.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 458 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 587 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 528 tons, 16.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 917 tons, 42.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 246 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 190 tons, 2.1 %
Reinforced masts with high observation posts - 30t
Marconi - long range wireless - 20t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 30t
Magazine climat control - 45t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 20t
Reserve - 55t

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 595 lbs / 4 806 Kg = 28.5 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.96 ft / 5.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 038 Square feet or 2 140 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 559 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Shinchi Roca LD 1913H1 - In service 1915

8000T cruiser, Peru Squadron Cruiser laid down 1913

Is that fact that there are a  around 70 degree arc forward were no main gun can fire not seen as a problem?

[Jefgte]

Korpen wrote:
"...70 degree arc forward were no main gun can fire..."


Classic in warships drawings
70 degree arc forward were no main gun can't fire - 35° each side


Jef  ;)

[Korpen]

Korpen wrote:
"...70 degree arc forward were no main gun can fire..."


Classic in warships drawings
70 degree arc forward were no main gun can't fire - 35° each side


Jef  ;)

It was very rare that all the guns could fire directly ahead... :P

BUt as i get you point, i still think it is odd to place such extreme mask forward, after all while fire directly ahead at zero elevation was rare, totaly blocking all forward fire is unique. ;)

[Jefgte]

Not all the guns ???
this is APQY arrangement, idem to Atahualpa BB


Jef

[Sachmle]

Yes. But w/ the height of the Forecastle your forward 230mm won't be able to fire over it except at very long range as you'll have to elevate the barrels to clear the stem.
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.96 ft / 5.17 m
As the guns sit on the main deck, or at 4.8m above water in your case and the stem is 7.6m above water. SS doesn't put guns on the Forecastle. To fire over the stem at low elevation you'd either have to raise the deck, raise the turret, or lower the forecastle.

[Korpen]

Not all the guns ???

Just teasing you for the double negation ;)

70 degree arc forward were no main gun can't fire

[Jefgte]

Shinchi Roca LD 1913H1 - In service 1915

8000T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   8 000 t light; 8 415 t standard; 9 185 t normal; 9 802 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.46 ft / 554.46 ft x 56.86 ft x 18.05 ft (normal load)
   169.00 m / 169.00 m x 17.33 m  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (1x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 054 lbs / 1 385 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   380.58 ft / 116.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   144.36 ft / 44.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     29.53 ft / 9.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48 000 shp / 35 808 Kw = 27.75 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 387 tons

Complement:
   468 - 609

Cost:
   £0.943 million / $3.770 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 382 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 1 851 tons, 20.1 %
      - Belts: 860 tons, 9.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 370 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 569 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1 881 tons, 20.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 737 tons, 40.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 186 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.6 %
Reinforced masts with high observation posts - 30t
Marconi - long range wireless - 20t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 30t
Magazine climat control - 45t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 20t
Reserve - 5t


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 588 lbs / 4 349 Kg = 25.8 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (40 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.69 ft / 5.39 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 313 Square feet or 2 073 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 532 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Borys]

Good!
Borys