Protected Cruisers for Peru

[Jefgte]

Reuse modernised turrets from BB Cuzco & Lima - 1 turret in reserve

11000T cruiser, Peru Squadron Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   11 000 t light; 11 580 t standard; 12 394 t normal; 13 044 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 75.46 ft x 19.87 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 23.00 m  x 6.06 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      10 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 727 lbs / 2 598 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   12.73 ft / 3.88 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   131.23 ft / 40.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   0.00 ft / 0.00 m
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   19.69 ft / 6.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   6.30" / 160 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 35 400 shp / 26 408 Kw = 24.34 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 464 tons

Complement:
   586 - 763

Cost:
   £2.741 million / $10.964 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 716 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 3 343 tons, 27.0 %
      - Belts: 1 324 tons, 10.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 459 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armament: 459 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 033 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 68 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 238 tons, 10.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 453 tons, 44.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 394 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 600 lbs / 7 530 Kg = 19.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (40 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.07 ft / 4.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 28 357 Square feet or 2 634 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 689 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

Well it's armoured like a cruiser, has guns like a small battleship, and doesn't have enough speed (by 1920) to fill the role of battlecruiser. What would you use it for?

[Jefgte]

This is a Squadron cruiser.

She work in the battle line & engage enemy cruisers, DDs & help the BBs to do the job.
Speed is just enough to screen 20-21kts BBs.


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

Interesting idea, but w/ that armor a 26-27kt 9-10" gunned cruiser will tear you a new one right quick.

[Jefgte]

"...
26-27kt 9-10"
..."

for 11000-12000t max

??? ??? ???


Jef  ;)

[Valles]

About 15-16,000, in the design sketches I've worked out.

[The Rock Doctor]

I think Sachmle's saying that your design is under-armored for combat against an enemy cruiser with armored-cruiser type guns.  This would be okay if your ship were faster and able to command the range of engagement, but she isn't - plus she's apparently pinned to your even slower battleline.

[Sachmle]

I think Sachmle's saying that your design is under-armored for combat against an enemy cruiser with armored-cruiser type guns.  This would be okay if your ship were faster and able to command the range of engagement, but she isn't - plus she's apparently pinned to your even slower battleline.

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.  ;) She's a good ship for fighting PC/CLs and TB/DDs, but not gonna last long against anything in her weight class.

[Jefgte]

Other idea-

PC with 6 x 12" guns in the battleline, to help to do the job

10000T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   10 000 t light; 10 568 t standard; 11 455 t normal; 12 165 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 68.90 ft x 18.05 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 21.00 m  x 5.50 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 810 lbs / 2 635 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.30" / 160 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   183.73 ft / 56.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 35 173 shp / 26 239 Kw = 24.50 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 597 tons

Complement:
   553 - 719

Cost:
   £1.258 million / $5.031 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 726 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 2 621 tons, 22.9 %
      - Belts: 1 198 tons, 10.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 474 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 898 tons, 7.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 378 tons, 12.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 155 tons, 45.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 455 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13 799 lbs / 6 259 Kg = 15.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Mid (30 %):      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Stern:      15.09 ft / 4.60 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.35 ft / 4.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 27 387 Square feet or 2 544 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 667 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

  ???  ???  ???
This ship is not realy a cruiser but a Battleline heavy Gunboat

Perhaps interresting for small Navies...


Jef  ;)

[Guinness]

could you give up some of that armor belt for more speed? Essentially build a 12" armed treaty tinclad? Protection only against 4" guns, but enough speed to choose the range against other cruisers or run and hide behind the skirts of real battleships?

[The Rock Doctor]

Huh.

You'd want more miscellaneous weight for FC; she'd be using the BB/AC size of it.

It's a curious design - certainly an impressive feat to cram that armament and speed into a hull of the size.  On the other hand, I think she wouldn't want to fight anything she can catch, and that smaller shells from more guns firing faster would be better for screening against enemy light forces.

[Sachmle]

I'd try triple 10" on the same hull and use the weight saved to increase speed.

[Jefgte]

Guinness request:
"
could you give up some of that armor belt for more speed? Essentially build a 12" armed treaty tinclad? Protection only against 4" guns, but enough speed to choose the range against other cruisers or run and hide behind the skirts of real battleships?
"

Here she is:

10000T, Guinness Squadron Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   10 000 t light; 10 566 t standard; 11 568 t normal; 12 370 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 68.90 ft x 19.21 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 21.00 m  x 5.86 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 660 lbs / 2 567 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 102
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   12.73 ft / 3.88 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   170.60 ft / 52.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.51" / 140 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 42 400 shp / 31 630 Kw = 25.77 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 804 tons

Complement:
   557 - 725

Cost:
   £1.284 million / $5.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 708 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 2 131 tons, 18.4 %
      - Belts: 838 tons, 7.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 457 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 776 tons, 6.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 661 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 240 tons, 45.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 569 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12 900 lbs / 5 851 Kg = 14.9 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.555
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (40 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.17 ft / 5.23 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 26 627 Square feet or 2 474 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 677 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Jefgte]

An other tinclad for Guinness...
but the speed is over 27kts

10000T, Guinness Squadron Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
   10 000 t light; 10 560 t standard; 11 555 t normal; 12 351 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 68.90 ft x 20.29 ft (normal load)
   168.00 m / 168.00 m x 21.00 m  x 6.18 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 660 lbs / 2 567 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.36" / 60 mm   390.42 ft / 119.00 m   12.73 ft / 3.88 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   137.80 ft / 42.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 51 000 shp / 38 046 Kw = 27.11 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 791 tons

Complement:
   556 - 724

Cost:
   £1.335 million / $5.342 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 708 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 1 713 tons, 14.8 %
      - Belts: 556 tons, 4.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 359 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 754 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1 998 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 322 tons, 46.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 555 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 016 lbs / 4 997 Kg = 12.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.525
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.57 ft / 8.10 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Stern:      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.32 ft / 5.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 891 Square feet or 2 405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Guinness]

An other tinclad for Guinness...
but the speed is over 27kts

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking of.