Iberia Patrol Cruiser (2,000 tons)

[miketr]

I am thinking about building some small patrol cruisers instead of more of the larger 5,100 light displacement protected cruisers.

PC-1911, Iberia Patrol Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,000 t light; 2,104 t standard; 2,259 t normal; 2,382 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   325.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
   99.06 m / 99.06 m x 10.67 m  x 3.81 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 378 lbs / 171 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,000 shp / 13,428 Kw = 25.51 kts
   Range 3,300nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 278 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   163 - 212

Cost:
   £0.229 million / $0.916 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 47 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 187 tons, 8.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 39 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 148 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 853 tons, 37.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 872 tons, 38.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 259 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 41 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,451 lbs / 658 Kg = 14.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.29 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.75 ft / 6.02 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.46 ft / 4.41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 141.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,983 Square feet or 742 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 59 lbs/sq ft or 290 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[miketr]

I was worried about this...  Using my TBD as a base I came up with a "Small Cruiser" using my DD tech thats nearly as good as the design thats twice as large.  I didn't attempt to put mount and hoist tech as I felt that would have been cheesy at best; even then this design is pushing the intent of the rules.  Thoughts?

Michael

PC-1911, Patrol Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,107 t standard; 1,258 t normal; 1,379 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   290.00 ft / 290.00 ft x 27.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   88.39 m / 88.39 m x 8.38 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 433 lbs / 196 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,000 shp / 13,428 Kw = 27.78 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 273 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   105 - 137

Cost:
   £0.160 million / $0.640 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 54 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 44 tons, 3.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 568 tons, 45.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 307 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 259 tons, 20.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 26 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     298 lbs / 135 Kg = 2.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.502
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.07 ft / 3.37 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Stern:      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.94 ft / 3.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,323 Square feet or 495 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 133 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, Three 20" torpedos (3x1) 3 tons and 13 tons construction reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

It's good in the sense that Springsharp likes it - but you'd have a tough time convincing me all that stuff would fit onto the hull.  I can't imagine there'd be enough deckspace.

[Tanthalas]

It's good in the sense that Springsharp likes it - but you'd have a tough time convincing me all that stuff would fit onto the hull.  I can't imagine there'd be enough deckspace.

I think that is what you said about my 1000 ton cruiser (Destroyer) and after a little research (and trying to draw it) I was forced to agree.  sorry mike gona have to go with rock here not enough deck space...

[miketr]

I am not even worried about deck cramping...  I am more worried about putting 150mm guns on something this small.  2x150mm and 3x105mm all center line doesn't appear to be a problem from a drawing point of view.

Try 2...



Michael

PC-1911, Iberia Patrol Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,081 t standard; 1,253 t normal; 1,391 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   290.00 ft / 290.00 ft x 27.50 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   88.39 m / 88.39 m x 8.38 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      3 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 312 lbs / 142 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 18,000 shp / 13,428 Kw = 27.81 kts
   Range 5,150nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 310 tons (80% coal)

Complement:
   104 - 136

Cost:
   £0.150 million / $0.601 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 39 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 28 tons, 2.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 28 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 590 tons, 47.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 24.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 254 tons, 20.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     292 lbs / 132 Kg = 2.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.07 ft / 3.37 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Stern:      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.94 ft / 3.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,314 Square feet or 494 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.01
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, six 20" torpedos (2x3) 6 tons and 24 tons construction reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

I disagree.  From the scale of the drawing, there's less than a foot of clearance between the torpedo carriages and some of the surrounding superstructure.  The 105mm guns have perhaps two feet between the rear of the gun and the edge of their platforms.

I think you're right to worried about putting 150mm on this size of hull, but that's been discussed in other threads already.  Designs like this are why it's necessary to keep one eye on the limitations of historical designs when using SS.

[P3D]

Destroyers OTL had limited habitability. A cruiser or patrol sloop would be much better suited for patrolling. N-verse destroyers are just mini-cruisers, but it could be argued that their habitability is still low - the large powerplants an armament require larger crew for the size.
For the same reason, I'd limit armament on the patrol sloop. Why 14 guns?

A 1000t sloop with turbines at 20kts would have 40% the machinery size, which would most probably won't take up all the hull depth, allowing for a second whole length deck.

For combat efficiency the destroyer is the better choice.

[miketr]

The Rock Doctor:

All I can say is I based it on this drawing...

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/torpedoboats/gtb1916mob/index.html

P3D: No particular reason for 14 guns, I wanted 2 150mm weapons and some number of 105mm and with whatever displacement left over of 50mm guns.  Its just the way the design works out.

OK pushing things up a bit to 2,500 tons light displacement

PC-1911 2.5k, Iberia Patrol Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,640 t standard; 2,965 t normal; 3,225 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   365.00 ft / 365.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
   111.25 m / 111.25 m x 12.19 m  x 3.81 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 504 lbs / 229 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,000 shp / 15,666 Kw = 25.69 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 586 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   200 - 261

Cost:
   £0.283 million / $1.131 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 245 tons, 8.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 53 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 192 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,016 tons, 34.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,120 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 465 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 55 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,336 lbs / 1,060 Kg = 22.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.569
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.50 ft / 6.55 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.06 ft / 4.59 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,369 Square feet or 963 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 315 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.91
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, three 20" torpedos (1x3) 3 tons and 42 tons construction reserve

[miketr]

Another 900 tons gets me this...  Which is a light belt.

PC-1911-3.4K, Iberia Protected Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   3,400 t light; 3,557 t standard; 3,853 t normal; 4,090 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 42.65 ft x 13.94 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 13.00 m  x 4.25 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 504 lbs / 229 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   337.93 ft / 103.00 m   7.84 ft / 2.39 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,000 shp / 19,396 Kw = 26.65 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 533 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   243 - 317

Cost:
   £0.348 million / $1.392 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 63 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 643 tons, 16.7 %
      - Belts: 211 tons, 5.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 52 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 364 tons, 9.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 16 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,258 tons, 32.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,391 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 453 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,393 lbs / 1,539 Kg = 32.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Stern:      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.96 ft / 4.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,480 Square feet or 1,159 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 333 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, four 20" torpedos (2x2) 4 tons and 31 tons construction reserve

[miketr]

I think the 2.5K design best fits my needs...  So I am working on a drawing for it.  I cut down the number of 105mm and made some of them super firing.  So it would be armed with 2 centerline 150mm's, 2 centerline 105mm's superfiring, 4 105mm's on the sides and 3 50mm's super firing (1 aft and 1 on either side of forward smokestack).  Any thoughts on the layout?

Michael

[miketr]

I think this will be the production version of my patrol cruiser.  I have decided to ditch the 150/105mm mixed battery and go for a uniform 120 uniform battery.  I will try to do a new picture  tonight.

Michael

PC-1911 2.5k-c, Iberia Patrol Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,500 t light; 2,634 t standard; 2,959 t normal; 3,219 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   365.00 ft / 365.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 12.50 ft (normal load)
   111.25 m / 111.25 m x 12.19 m  x 3.81 m

Armament:
      5 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 490 lbs / 222 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,000 shp / 15,666 Kw = 25.70 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 585 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   199 - 260

Cost:
   £0.281 million / $1.125 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 61 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 243 tons, 8.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 51 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 192 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,016 tons, 34.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,137 tons, 38.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 459 tons, 15.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,338 lbs / 1,061 Kg = 44.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.20 ft / 4.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,358 Square feet or 962 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 319 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, three 20" torpedos (1x3) 3 tons and 29 tons construction reserve

[Sachmle]

speed 25.70 kts
Armament: 9 - 4.72" & 4 - 1.97" for a broadside 490 lbs
3 - 20.0" torpedoes
Overall survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 2,338 lbs / 1,061 Kg = 44.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes

With that combo of speed, armament, and armor/survivability she won't be patrolling very long if she finds anything. Good thing they're relatively cheap @ 2.5BP/$$

[miketr]

The stability is high I think at 1.2, the weakness of the design is the lack of armor and medium speed of 25.5 knots without a doubt.  Its good enough for the mission but not great I admit but I need hulls.  Its a show the flag / trade protection design; I would rather build more Madrid Class PC's but they cost twice as much and again I need numbers.  Any thoughts as to how to improve the design?

Michael

[Sachmle]

I assume she'll only be used as an advance scout, not a anti-TB defense craft for fleet ops. If so, I'd probably cut some of the 4.72"s and try and up the speed, she'll need to be able to out run you fleet by a fair margin to get far enough ahead. Now if she's more a Caribbean muckabout/anti pirate ship, she's more than enough. It comes down to usage, just like BC's..use them to stand in the line and Whaaack, gurgle..gurgle..gurgle.

[The Rock Doctor]

Either that or dump the deck armor; it won't be relevant in a dust-up with other small cruisers and destroyers, and it's not going to be enough to defeat capital ship rounds.

A longer, deeper hull, (~120 x 13 x 4) with a BC of around 0.45, might be worth looking at.  I happen to think this particular design's hull form is stout and blocky for the role...