Mineral resources

[Borys]

Ahoj!
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/country/

Limited to what is being mined today, this still is a useful guide of what might be found and where.

Borys

[Ithekro]

Don't know if this is helpful or not.

A Natural Resource map for Middle Earth.
http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion/secondage.jpg
by Sampsa Rydman (I think) of Tolkien's lands.

[Ithekro]

Mithril?  Thoughts from any geologists or anyone else?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Mithril could be some fancy iron ore. Or misspelt "me-thrill", i.e. perky bosoms.
Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Perhaps titanium?  The color's off, but it's lighter than iron, corrosion-resistant, and seems sturdy, given its use in high-tech subs and aircraft.

I'd be hardpressed to find a natural association with silver, gold, and iron, as seen on your map.  In the form of either ilmenite or rutile, it might be associated with gold in a particularly rich placer or paleo-placer.  The silver and iron shown on the map might then be found in separate, unrelated deposits.

[maddox]

Titanium is very difficult to extract from any kind of ore. You'll need magic to do that on the scale of making even 1 sword, before the 1940's.

And even after the 40's it's a very dirty proces requiring lots of energy and chlorine.
The main reason why most Titanium still is made in Russia.

[The Rock Doctor]

It would support the supposed scarcity and expense of mithril items.

Alternately - maybe the old lore has the story somewhat wrong.  Perhaps it's an early steel alloy that happens to include an impurity or contaminant with beneficial side effects.  If the workers don't understand what's different about their steel-making technique, they might incorrectly assume they're not working normal iron.

Or, alternately-alternately, mithril is just steel - but the workmanship employed by the "Mithril Brothers" was quite superior to their peers...

[maddox]

The Mithril brothers being the equivalent of a Japanese swordsmith, a few 1000 years in advance.
Sounds very plausible with Rohans history. 
Equaly possible is the impurity solution. A dash of molybdeen, a mouseskull of chromium, flavered by some nickel, et voila, one kind of steel that is better than all the rest.

[miketr]

I would suggest that mithril ore is just iron ore with high amounts of nickel and chromium (perhaps other trace metals) in the ore body and next to no sulfur, a natural steel in otherwords.  There was a mine in Hungary that had something like that and the metal made from its ore was famous in the middle ages as it didn't rust compared to normal iron. 

With a small scale furance its possible to create blister carbon steel in a couple of pound amounts but ore like this makes it possible to create steel in much larger amounts.

Michael 

[P3D]

As the word 'steel' covers different materials with about a magnitude of variation in yield strength saying that mithrill is some kind steel is plausible.

Or it is some kind of prehistoric aluminium alloy, being very light. It would need 'magic' (electrolysis) to produce in very small quantities, a very costly process if you have only chemical batteries available, then you can throw in 'divine' inspiration for what alloying elements to use with whatever heat treatment. Such would be good material for armor (some aluminium alloys have strength exceeding low-grade steels), not for swords though. And would lose its good properties put in any better fire.

Titanium is not much lighter than steel.

[Ithekro]

The metal seems to be used only for armor, jewlrey, decoration, and in once case an armored gate. (but not weapons, or if used only to decorate the weapon.)

"Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim." ~ Gandalf.

The name means "grey glitter" to the elves.

(It seems the first mention of it is as "silvered steel" in 1937 edition of the Hobbit.)

Theories suggest either high grade steel, titanium, or even aluminium.  Typically is worth about as much as platinum in its day.

[miketr]

Titanium is not much lighter than steel.

To achieve an equal strength of Steel you can use an amount of Titanium 45% lighter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium#Characteristics

The above said the stuff is a bitch to refine, melt and manufacture into anything; forget trying to weld the stuff at all as it cracks unless done perfectly.

Michael

[Ithekro]

Since there is only one known source in Rohan, and that is an old source, it may be tapped out anyway.  Trying to not me magical, I'd just rather have a worldly metal this could be, thus if Mithril is found (or there are other sources of the same metal already) the "secret" can be (or has been) remastered in the modern age.  Also to see what relics of old would be like in the modern age.  The mithril shirt may still exist, but there would be no one who could wear it aside from a child, midget, or (human) dwarf.

[P3D]

Yet again, define what properties you assume for steel. While some titanium alloys can have 1400MPa Yield Strength, some maraging steel has even higher (2000MPa). Of course, people advocating titanium usually ignore it (wonder why ???). Steel in general also has one of the best fatique properties (failure under repeated load cycles). And those titanium alloys are brittle with 8% elongation. At the end, specific strength is about the same, with maraging steel having better high temperature properties. It should be mentioned that maraging steel export is heavily controlled.

Titanium Beta C:
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=14161
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=14159

Maraging Steel:
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=7416
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatID=7420

[Blooded]

Hello,

Here is a great site for RL economic info.

http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govinfo/collections/league/stat.html#1926

Information was gathered by the League of Nations. goto 1926 Production Info.
On page 47 they have most of the world oil production( in millions of barrels).

If you need to know how much iron, wheat, rice you would be producing in RL its in there. Unfortunately it appears 1913 is the earliest data with some 1909-1913 info.

BTW Oil weights are tough to standardize.
American Petroleum Institute(US Barrels):
Crude Oil: metric ton equals 7.33 Barrels
Gasoline: metric ton equals 8.51 Barrels
Residual fuels: metric ton equals 6.66 Barrels
Distillate Fuels: metric ton equals 7.25 Barrels
Sythetics: metric ton equals 8.30 Barrels

(info from Oil and War -morrow pub.  excellent book i highly recommend-ww2 related)
Also all crude is not equal so the above is just a guideline.

Also for US Oil:
http://www.priweb.org/ed/pgws/backyard/backyard_home.html