Baltic Battlecriuser desing studies

[ledeper]

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913

Displacement:
   21.067 t light; 22.273 t standard; 24.308 t normal; 25.936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   694,07 ft / 688,98 ft x 98,43 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   211,55 m / 210,00 m x 30,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8.552 lbs / 3.879 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,00" / 229 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   11,91 ft / 3,63 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   21,24 ft / 6,47 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80.729 shp / 60.224 Kw = 27,70 kts
   Range 5.500nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.663 tons

Complement:
   973 - 1.265

Cost:
   £2,267 million / $9,068 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.069 tons, 4,4 %
   Armour: 6.501 tons, 26,7 %
      - Belts: 2.675 tons, 11,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 528 tons, 2,2 %
      - Armament: 1.069 tons, 4,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.049 tons, 8,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 181 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 3.163 tons, 13,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.934 tons, 40,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.241 tons, 13,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34.637 lbs / 15.711 Kg = 25,2 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 5,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 7,9 ft / 2,4 m
   Roll period: 14,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,478
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,87 ft / 8,80 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Stern:      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,21 ft / 5,86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 44.300 Square feet or 4.116 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 166 lbs/sq ft or 811 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,30
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913

Displacement:
   21.490 t light; 22.704 t standard; 24.765 t normal; 26.415 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   696,71 ft / 688,98 ft x 98,43 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   212,36 m / 210,00 m x 30,00 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.372,00lbs / 622,33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8.552 lbs / 3.879 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,00" / 229 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   11,91 ft / 3,63 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,40" / 36 mm   447,83 ft / 136,50 m   24,09 ft / 7,34 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79.716 shp / 59.468 Kw = 27,50 kts
   Range 5.500nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.710 tons

Complement:
   986 - 1.283

Cost:
   £2,277 million / $9,109 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.069 tons, 4,3 %
   Armour: 6.845 tons, 27,6 %
      - Belts: 2.682 tons, 10,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 559 tons, 2,3 %
      - Armament: 1.355 tons, 5,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.065 tons, 8,3 %
      - Conning Tower: 183 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 3.124 tons, 12,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.052 tons, 40,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.276 tons, 13,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35.081 lbs / 15.913 Kg = 25,6 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 5,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 7,3 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,487
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,87 ft / 8,80 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Stern:      18,37 ft / 5,60 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,21 ft / 5,86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 44.655 Square feet or 4.149 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 815 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,23
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

- Engine year should be 1912
- secondary inadequate for anything
- Block coefficient should not be below ~0.51-0.52 for a capital ship
- 150 shells per gun might be more than the average liner life

[Tanthalas]

... on the BC actualy, uhm OTL there were several that fell around a .45 I found this out when I was siming out my fast BBs

[P3D]

Which ones? When I proposed long ago a 0.500 BC I was told it's too lean.
I don't really want to check all the BCs ever built I'm lazy. :)

[Tanthalas]

a couple of the italian dreads Conte DI Cavours I think it was came in at .48, there were some that came in lower but I cant remember off the top of my head which they were.

[P3D]

For the Cavour I get around 0.54 - just displacement(t)/LxBxD(m).

[Tanthalas]

Block coefficient: 0.497 right out of SS

176 m X 28 m X 9.3 m @ 22 992 tons standard

thats the data I have on them.

[P3D]

Hm, I got BC=0.521 at 23000 standard/24100t normal/25000t full displacement for the same dimensions. Still, significantly leaner than I thought.

And some sources tells that the class was only 169m long, now which one should I believe as the waterline length. And all the drawings on the net is after rebuild, aargh. >:(

[Ithekro]

Jane's 1914 has the Conte di Cavour at 575.5 feet long (waterline), 91.75 feet wide, and 27.75 feet mean drought.  Overall length of 577 feet.  22,000 tons normal.

[Ithekro]

As for this ship.  The Baltic and North Seas would seen to have a large number of lighter warships in the area with lots of places to hide (though most of those are controlled by the Baltic Confederation).  Five 4 inch guns on a side is not going to be able to stop a lot of destroyers or torpedo boats if they come at you in any numbers.  The 14 inch guns won't be able to target such tiny ships very well (if at all).  That might be a lesson of the Pacific War and Anahuac War, larger numbers of secondaries (or slightly greater is size) and some lighter quickfire guns to back them up.  The Rohirrim ships were able to defeat small numbers of torpedo boats during there war and during the Peace Fleet Incident during the Sino-Swiss War of 1901.  The larger numbers of engagements betwee Swiss and Dutch forces during the Pacific War (with fewer intense actions between Brandenburg and Swiss and Japanese and Swiss) likely showed that ships without proper anti-torpedo boat guns (or more accurately anti-destroyer guns) tended to get torpedoed or at least the offending destroyers would escape, or return for a second pass.  While it is unlikely that a single ship could fend off a large number of destroyers, one should be able to take out a few by itself during the destroyer's approach (or as Korpen suggests, evading a lot).

Note: Most destroyers only need one or two good hits to knock them out of being effective.  The newer larger 1,000 ton destroyer may need three hits to knock out and four or five to sink.  (Torpedo boats generally only need one hit to sink them, with some needing two hits.)

[The Rock Doctor]

I'll agree with Ithekro's comments.  An additional question would be, "Where/why does the Baltic Confederation see a need for battlecruisers?"

[Borys]

Ahoj!
They are for the North Atlantic.
For a distant blockade of French, Normanner or Nederlander ports.
Borys

[Korpen]

While battlecruisers are nice, I get a feeling that is not really what the confederation needs. A navy gets odd then the most numerous type of ships are large battleships.

[Tanthalas]

I agree Korpen (hence my Constant Construction of Destroyers)

[maddox]

Ahoj!
They are for the North Atlantic.
For a distant blockade of French, Normanner or Nederlander ports.
Borys

Blockading France?? Please do.    :)