Rohan 1915 Battleship design study

[Ithekro]

We have here four designs for the 1915 battleship.  They range from the standard 15.5 inch guns vessel with 4 twin turrets, to a 3 twin turret design, to a 3 turreted 8 gun battleship, and to a huge 15 gun 5 turret 14 inch gun armed battleship.

Thoughts?



Thengel

Rohan Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   33,844 t light; 35,502 t standard; 37,200 t normal; 38,409 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   645.00 ft / 640.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   196.59 m / 195.07 m x 32.92 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,800.00lbs / 816.47kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,151 lbs / 7,326 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   220.00 ft / 67.06 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.5" / 368 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.50" / 368 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,000 shp / 32,824 Kw = 21.36 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,056 tons)

Complement:
   1,339 - 1,741

Cost:
   £4.623 million / $18.490 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,081 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 15,657 tons, 42.1 %
      - Belts: 7,824 tons, 21.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 629 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 3,808 tons, 10.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,047 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 350 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,754 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,052 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,356 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51,195 lbs / 23,221 Kg = 27.5 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 7.0 ft / 2.1 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.698
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.46 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.12 ft / 6.44 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 54,897 Square feet or 5,100 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 963 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.40
      - Overall: 1.04
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Freathon

Rohan Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   29,254 t light; 30,618 t standard; 32,500 t normal; 33,875 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   605.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   184.40 m / 182.88 m x 32.92 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      6 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,800.00lbs / 816.47kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,551 lbs / 5,693 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.5" / 368 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.50" / 368 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,000 shp / 32,824 Kw = 21.80 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,387 tons)

Complement:
   1,209 - 1,573

Cost:
   £3.820 million / $15.281 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,615 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 14,028 tons, 43.2 %
      - Belts: 7,435 tons, 22.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armament: 2,957 tons, 9.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,717 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 319 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,754 tons, 5.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,556 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,246 tons, 10.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,985 lbs / 21,766 Kg = 25.8 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 7.6 ft / 2.3 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.46 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.12 ft / 6.44 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 48,953 Square feet or 4,548 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 878 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Theodwyn

Rohan Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   33,225 t light; 34,897 t standard; 36,510 t normal; 37,654 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   635.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   193.55 m / 192.02 m x 32.92 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,861.94lbs / 844.56kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 16,646 lbs / 7,551 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   220.00 ft / 67.06 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.5" / 368 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.50" / 368 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,000 shp / 32,824 Kw = 21.40 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,903 tons)

Complement:
   1,319 - 1,716

Cost:
   £4.591 million / $18.364 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,081 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 15,311 tons, 41.9 %
      - Belts: 7,670 tons, 21.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 614 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 3,689 tons, 10.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,993 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 345 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,754 tons, 4.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,779 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,285 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     49,010 lbs / 22,230 Kg = 26.3 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 7.4 ft / 2.3 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.696
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.13 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.32 ft / 6.19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 53,923 Square feet or 5,010 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 967 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.42
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Peregrin

Rohan Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   37,444 t light; 39,526 t standard; 41,250 t normal; 42,464 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   700.19 ft / 690.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   213.42 m / 210.31 m x 32.92 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      15 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (5x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 22,331 lbs / 10,129 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.5" / 368 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.50" / 368 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44,000 shp / 32,824 Kw = 21.30 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,103 tons)

Complement:
   1,446 - 1,881

Cost:
   £5.674 million / $22.696 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,791 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 17,254 tons, 41.8 %
      - Belts: 8,306 tons, 20.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 674 tons, 1.6 %
      - Armament: 4,789 tons, 11.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,110 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 375 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,754 tons, 4.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,344 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,806 tons, 9.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     45,040 lbs / 20,430 Kg = 32.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.646
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.89 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.82 ft / 5.74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,034 Square feet or 5,206 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 208 lbs/sq ft or 1,015 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

If Rohan wants to make a statement, go with the biggest design.  It's not like many of us can match them.

A side note, though - I think you've mentioned in your 1911 thread that your 15.5" guns can penetrate 4" of deck armor.  That being the case, perhaps Rohan ought to be installing at least that much deck armor of its own, in case somebody else fields guns of similar power?

[Ithekro]

I'll consider the deck thickness increase.  However the designers will be working off a 18,000 yard maximum range estimated for combat in 1915.  At that range it is iffy if the 15.5 inch can penetrate 3 inches of deck armor.  The 1917 or 1919 models may decide that 24,000 yards is coming and make the ships safer.  But by then there may be other, larger (and flying) problems to deal with, and thus the designs will be modified accordingly.


Freathon: the 6 gun version, would make a nice bean counter quelling battleships.  Not much more expensive than the previous model and slightly smaller in length.

The "Pippin" (the 15 gun monster named after a King named after a Halfling):  I don't think it will happen that way.  She's way too big a leap in tonnage for Rohan's tastes (though with a devestating broadside weight)

Thengle and Theodwyn are the more balanced ships.  They also have room to spare for improvements ocer time, which is something I had been trying to do with the early Rohirrim designs, but fell back on the "just good enough" practice of 1.00 overall rather than 1.00 cross-sectional.  Theodwyn is more in line with Italian designs and transitioning from twins to triples while still being sure at least the twins will work...though it this case that means only one fuctional turret if the triples don't work.  Might recast Theodwyn with three triple turrets as a battlecruiser later on and just build the slightly larger, but more balanced Thengle in 1915.  If the pattern remains, the 1917 model will either have 10 guns (twins and triples) or 12 guns, all triples.  Though in all honestly I have a feeling the 1917 ships will be repeats of the 1915 ships, or maybe the Theodwyn design.  The 1919 design will be larger and either be the 12 gunned version of the 15.5" guns or be the first ship with the 17" guns.  Then 1921 ship will likely have 17" guns, if things escalate.  If not the 14" and 15.5" guns will likely remain the high end guns for Rohan (along with the 15" and 16" guns of other navies).

[Tanthalas]

im planing on 16" guns eventualy, and tbh thats my endgame.  actualy all my 14" trip ships can handle 16" twins with ease (SS must think a twin 16" turret is lighter or somthing cause I actualy Gain available tonage making that swap) my twin 14" ships are evolutions of 12" trip ships I was working on and thus are technicly under armored by the standards of the sim.

[Borys]

Tanthalas, P3D compiled a list of barbette diametres in the "helpful information secion. The 16" twin is  SMALLER than the 14" triple.

As to the Eorlingas' battleships - I'd go with the 15 gun ship :)
But the most "Habsburg" of the lot is the 4x2 ship.
Borys

[Tanthalas]

Tanthalas, P3D compiled a list of barbette diametres in the "helpful information secion. The 16" twin is  SMALLER than the 14" triple.

As to the Eorlingas' battleships - I'd go with the 15 gun ship :)
But the most "Habsburg" of the lot is the 4x2 ship.
Borys

I was refering to stability and whatnot ^.^ (and tbh the only real canidate is the 12X14" monster)