Maori Type1911 Destroyer

[Valles]

The end of the breech is about 1,5m from the centerline.

Wait, what?

I am not persuaded about the main guns, since by my count the crew has about eight-to-ten feet of distance between the back of the breech and the rear wall of the gunhouse, but evidently I'd underestimated the amount of space needed to enclose the 75s. Would an additional two feet be helpful there, do you think?

[Korpen]

The end of the breech is about 1,5m from the centerline.

Wait, what?

I am not persuaded about the main guns, since by my count the crew has about eight-to-ten feet of distance between the back of the breech and the rear wall of the gunhouse, but evidently I'd underestimated the amount of space needed to enclose the 75s. Would an additional two feet be helpful there, do you think?

What gunhouse? Acording to the SS report the guns are open, like the submarine guns Baorys linked to. If you want unarmoured gunhouses on the gun you should add a few mm of armour to them.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Actually, I was refering to the 6" guns, as possible not being able to fire directly abeam. Or very slowly. On ends is fine, as much as it can be on a vessel this size.
The 3" should be fine, they are much, much smaller:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_3-40_mk1.htm

Borys

[Valles]

Actually, I was refering to the 6" guns, as possible not being able to fire directly abeam. Or very slowly. On ends is fine, as much as it can be on a vessel this size.

Yes, I know you were. They're fully enclosed, the beam of the deck is irrelevant. By my pixel-counting there is ten feet/three meters of open space between the breech of the gun and the back of its house. Springsharp shows the recoil effect as quite tolerable. Seems quite clear to me.

What gunhouse? Acording to the SS report the guns are open, like the submarine guns Baorys linked to. If you want unarmoured gunhouses on the gun you should add a few mm of armour to them.

That seems really silly given that they're not intended to protect from anything stiffer than the weather, but fine, fine.

In Amber Clad, Maori Destroyer laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 793 t standard; 995 t normal; 1,157 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   295.26 ft / 288.71 ft x 26.25 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
   90.00 m / 88.00 m x 8.00 m  x 3.00 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      24 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 258 lbs / 117 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 15.7" / 400 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.12" / 3 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -
   2nd:   0.12" / 3 mm   0.12" / 3 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,439 shp / 10,026 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 13.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 365 tons

Complement:
   88 - 115

Cost:
   £0.115 million / $0.460 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 32 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 440 tons, 44.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 259 tons, 26.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 246 tons, 24.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     302 lbs / 137 Kg = 2.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 10.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.467
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.99 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 73
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.36 ft / 0.72 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (7.55 ft / 2.30 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Stern:      7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.24 ft / 3.73 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 169.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,903 Square feet or 456 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 66 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 122 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.93
      - Overall: 0.57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

10 tons short-range wireless
4 tons torpedoes

[Blooded]

Hello,

I believe that you need to use 'mount with hoist' to have fully armored and/or enclosed turrets. Saw this somewhere amongst all the various threads.

TTFN

[Korpen]

Hello,

I believe that you need to use 'mount with hoist' to have fully armored and/or enclosed turrets. Saw this somewhere amongst all the various threads.

TTFN

Well, i do not think you need hoists per se, but without them ROF will be horrible as soon as the ready ammunition is used up, and in an enclosed mount the amount will be lower then when using deck lockers. So it will be 5-10 rounds, and then the gun crew have to start running in and out of the mounts the get shells and charges...

So in practices; Yes, one needs hoists in enclosed mounts.

[Valles]

I was about to say that giving each gun its own hoist on a destroyer would make the historical purists shriek in agony... but when it's put that way it's its own argument, isn't it?

Noted for future reference. ^_^

[Korpen]

I was about to say that giving each gun its own hoist on a destroyer would make the historical purists shriek in agony... but when it's put that way it's its own argument, isn't it?

Or one can see that almost no destroyers prior to ww2 had enclosed mounts...

[Carthaginian]

But one CAN see that the first to develop DD's with enclosed mounts (the Japanese, IIRC) did so for all the same reasons that the Maori would in our little world. I don't think that the design is unfounded, but I would say it's about 10 years early.