Italia 1911 (I decided to just put them all in one thread)

[Tanthalas]

Italia-CBB-1911, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   17,438 t light; 18,344 t standard; 19,704 t normal; 20,792 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 539.00 ft x 84.10 ft x 26.66 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 164.29 m x 25.63 m  x 8.13 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9,040 lbs / 4,101 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   323.00 ft / 98.45 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   216.00 ft / 65.84 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   323.00 ft / 98.45 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   323.00 ft / 98.45 m   24.77 ft / 7.55 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 32,720 shp / 24,409 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,448 tons

Complement:
   831 - 1,081

Cost:
   £1.768 million / $7.071 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,130 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 7,552 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 4,600 tons, 23.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 444 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 1,440 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 895 tons, 4.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 173 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,487 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,919 tons, 35.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,266 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,068 lbs / 11,824 Kg = 19.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.571
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.41 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.22 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.74 ft / 5.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,255 Square feet or 2,997 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 752 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Colony Class Battleships
first to be Named Lybia

[Tanthalas]

Italia-BB-1911, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   24,500 t light; 25,713 t standard; 27,394 t normal; 28,739 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   638.00 ft / 625.00 ft x 97.00 ft x 29.60 ft (normal load)
   194.46 m / 190.50 m x 29.57 m  x 9.02 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,757 lbs / 5,333 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   351.00 ft / 106.98 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   274.00 ft / 83.52 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   351.00 ft / 106.98 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   351.00 ft / 106.98 m   26.84 ft / 8.18 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 23.41 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,026 tons

Complement:
   1,064 - 1,384

Cost:
   £2.398 million / $9.590 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,470 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 10,173 tons, 37.1 %
      - Belts: 5,536 tons, 20.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 523 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 2,336 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,543 tons, 5.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 235 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,182 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,328 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,891 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,846 lbs / 20,201 Kg = 30.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.534
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (67 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (22 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.38 ft / 5.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,693 Square feet or 3,873 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.48
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Planed Class of 4 ships each named for a Noble Family of Italia
Marius, Caesar, Metellus, and Drusus

[Korpen]

Italia-BB-1911, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   24,500 t light; 25,713 t standard; 27,394 t normal; 28,739 t full load

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring

To match the image you should have two turrets superfiering.
If you want the image to match the SS you should lower B or C turret one deck.

Remember that when SS talks about "aft" and "fore" it is always in relation to the midbreak.

[Tanthalas]

Negative man it is Centerline - ends (equal/fore > aft).  In this case there are 3 turrets ahead of mid break and one aft of it.  This is the 5th or 6th ship I have posted like this, in fact I have already more than half finished building one.  I specificly asked the moderators about this layout and they said it was fine.  As there is no posistioning in SS for a gun set at the break which I have found looking at pictures to be fairly common historicly, this was the best way I could come up with to sim it.

[P3D]

Any superfiring turret was simmed as Korpen mentioned before. I.e. if it is superfiring, it must be set so in the Springsharp.

I'd rather keep to this rule, because several (almost all) battleship designs would be affected by this - it basically saves several hundred tons and allows much better stability.

[Korpen]

Negative man it is Centerline - ends (equal/fore > aft).  In this case there are 3 turrets ahead of mid break and one aft of it.  This is the 5th or 6th ship I have posted like this, in fact I have already more than half finished building one.  I specificly asked the moderators about this layout and they said it was fine.  As there is no posistioning in SS for a gun set at the break which I have found looking at pictures to be fairly common historicly, this was the best way I could come up with to sim it.

If the moderator have said ok for such a layout I would say they do not know SS.
The springsharp file you posted do NOT put three turrets ahead of the midbreak, it puts two ahead of the midbreak and two below it (there is no way to make ss2 put ¾ of the turrets on a single side of the midbreak in a single setting). The way to sim this in ships is to make two turrets raised, as that gives you the best weight approximation of the raised barbarette.

The layout you want is either:
A: Flagrant cheating.
or
B: Precedence for all designs to have one raised/superfiring turret for free.

[Tanthalas]

Any superfiring turret was simmed as Korpen mentioned before. I.e. if it is superfiring, it must be set so in the Springsharp.

I'd rather keep to this rule, because several (almost all) battleship designs would be affected by this - it basically saves several hundred tons and allows much better stability.

but the turret isnt superfiering... its simply placed at deck level.  with the break at the posistion its at I want you to tell me where to put it that isnt where it is.  By your reasoning all turrets placed at deck level with a raised foreward deck should be superfiering, and that just simply is not the case.  The aft turret on the Pships wasnt superfiering, the aft turret on Vittorio Veneto was but from the pictures of it you can see it was higher than deck level.

I know you guys dont like this layout but sorry IMHO its legit.  Yes it saves Tonage, that was the idea behind it.  It is unconventional, that was also the idea most bbs from my research had the break around 50% or less.  This is how I saw her as I was working on the SS report, and as I have pointed out in the past I rough in the SS report then draw them then adjust the SS report to fit the reality of the pic.  unless you can show me a seting in SS to place a gun at the break it's staying exactly like it is.

[Korpen]

Any superfiring turret was simmed as Korpen mentioned before. I.e. if it is superfiring, it must be set so in the Springsharp.

I'd rather keep to this rule, because several (almost all) battleship designs would be affected by this - it basically saves several hundred tons and allows much better stability.

but the turret isnt superfiering... its simply placed at deck level.  with the break at the posistion its at I want you to tell me where to put it that isnt where it is.  By your reasoning all turrets placed at deck level with a raised foreward deck should be superfiering, and that just simply is not the case.  The aft turret on the Pships wasnt superfiering, the aft turret on Vittorio Veneto was but from the pictures of it you can see it was higher than deck level.

I know you guys dont like this layout but sorry IMHO its legit.  Yes it saves Tonage, that was the idea behind it.  It is unconventional, that was also the idea most bbs from my research had the break around 50% or less.  This is how I saw her as I was working on the SS report, and as I have pointed out in the past I rough in the SS report then draw them then adjust the SS report to fit the reality of the pic.  unless you can show me a seting in SS to place a gun at the break it's staying exactly like it is.

Perkele
It is VERY conventional, four turrets, two raised aft and fore is as conventional one can get.
And get this: SS does NOT consider that turret to be at deck level, if it was at what SS consider is deck level for an turret in this layout it would be BEHIND the midbreak, how hard is that to grasp?
Like i have already said, there is no way to sim ¾ of the turrets to a single side of the midbreak in a single entry, you can split it in two (three all fore and one with one all aft), or make one more turret raised.
The reason it saves weight if due to the fact that the top 3m of the barbarette is not armoured, or considered to exist at all.

Gör om - gör rätt.

[Tanthalas]

Negative man it is Centerline - ends (equal/fore > aft).  In this case there are 3 turrets ahead of mid break and one aft of it.  This is the 5th or 6th ship I have posted like this, in fact I have already more than half finished building one.  I specificly asked the moderators about this layout and they said it was fine.  As there is no posistioning in SS for a gun set at the break which I have found looking at pictures to be fairly common historicly, this was the best way I could come up with to sim it.

If the moderator have said ok for such a layout I would say they do not know SS.
The springsharp file you posted do NOT put three turrets ahead of the midbreak, it puts two ahead of the midbreak and two below it (there is no way to make ss2 put ¾ of the turrets on a single side of the midbreak in a single setting). The way to sim this in ships is to make two turrets raised, as that gives you the best weight approximation of the raised barbarette.

The layout you want is either:
A: Flagrant cheating.
or
B: Precedence for all designs to have one raised/superfiring turret for free.

so now its out you are acusing ME of Cheating.  NOONE ACUSES ME OF CHEATING, it is somthing that anyone that put the thought into it could have come up with.  Just because you were to obsesed with siming historical ships to look a little deaper it isnt my fault.  you all stay around 50% so ya if you wanted to the same thing sure you could have a free SF turret at midships.  I specificly asked if I was breaking any rules laying a ship out like this b4 i posted the 25 knot Marius proposal.  I was told that I wasnt (I was fairly sure I wasnt since I had posted several ships that were similar already (including the 20 knot 12X14" marius).

It is simply a matter of forcing SS to do somthing by moving the midbreak aft.  For example SS assumes all guns will be within the Main Belt, so if you go 20% 60% 20% on your armor and then set your midbreak at 80% the aft turret on a 3 turret ship has to be above the lowerd rear decks (extream example I admit)

Cheating was not my Intent, seting a Precident if such ocoured then yes that was my intention.  As I stated previously technicly the turret isnt raised or SF technicly its at deck level, the deck its mounted on just happens to be 9' higher than the deck the one aft of it is mounted on.  While i do go to extream lengths to stay with in the spirit of the rules, I am a firm beliver in rule #1 Play the Sim Not the Rules, im not knowlageable on historic ships nor do I have the recources to fall back on.  However that works for me because I dont want to build Carbon Copys of historical ships I want oddballs, things that are uniquly well ME, this is also why I dont build Flush deck ships even though admitadly they are easier to sim.  the ship in question is simply a backwards evolution of the fast Marious which NOONE had any coments on.  You all complaind about the CSA ship using this exact layout where did you think Carth got the idea it was from my 2 heavy Marius Proposals.

[Valles]

Korpen: Could you please provide a reference to your insistence that mid-break refers to engine placement? The only reference I've ever found in Springsharp to such is in the Freeboard section, where its position is user-determined.

[Tanthalas]

I give up some people just cant accept that someone else would come up with a diferent idea, if we arnt copying a totaly Historic ship its automaticly breaking a rule or 2 or 3.  Maybee I should just make Korpen and P3D happy and deleat all my posts, and quit the sim.  After all thats aparently what they want anyone creative gone, but then I think wait making assholes miserable is what I live for.  so ill hang around just to do that, then I get told to play nice by the mods so I do im a perfect little angle.  I even agree with people who I generaly would disagree with just for the sake of causing an argument, My reward for atempting to bury the hatchet is that instead of doing the same they attack me and acuse me of cheating, so from now on ill treat everyone with exactly the same respect they treat me.  So let it be known from this point on if your an ass to me ill be an ass to you (not that thats any diferent than it was previously before I was asked to play nice).  /end rant

[The Rock Doctor]

Some of us need to be more careful in how we say things.  Some of us need to develop thicker skin. 

I think a lot of folks don't necessarily examine each posted design with a sharp eye for problems.  I typically skim a design, especially if I think I've seen similar ones on previous occasions.  So issues like this superfiring arrangement can be overlooked on my part.

It appears that the latest design has a layout similar to the Queen Elizabeth class battleships.  This is how the Springsharp demo for the QE looks; I believe it reinforces what Korpen is saying about "C" turret:

HMS Queen Elizabeth, Royal Navy Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   26,422 t light; 28,473 t standard; 29,267 t normal; 29,902 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   645.75 ft / 645.75 ft x 90.60 ft x 28.75 ft (normal load)
   196.82 m / 196.82 m x 27.61 m  x 8.76 m

Armament:
     8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,938.00lbs / 879.06kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
     12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
     3 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1912 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17,285 lbs / 7,840 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   235.00 ft / 71.63 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
     0.75 ft / 0.23 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   410.00 ft / 124.97 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 55,373 shp / 41,308 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,429 tons)

Complement:
   1,118 - 1,454

Cost:
   £2.838 million / $11.354 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,910 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 10,051 tons, 34.3 %
      - Belts: 4,021 tons, 13.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 819 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 2,591 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,395 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 225 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,208 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,252 tons, 41.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,846 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,767 lbs / 13,955 Kg = 18.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 3.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.41 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 34
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (67 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.09 ft / 7.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,150 Square feet or 4,009 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 956 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

actualy I was basing it loosley off Derfflinger, and I couldnt come up with a way to sim the masive spacing between the 2 aft turrets that I liked.  it actualy works better if I put one turret aft and 3 grouped foreward, but I inturpet that to be a nelson style layout (the 3 grouped foreward that is) using the 3 distributed majority foreward works to with one at centerline grouped center also works but that says to me it should be at 50% of the hull (also not the intention of what I invisiond).  I have played with a half dozen diferent ideas on how to sim what I drew here, none of them realy made me happy but this was the closest to the spirit of what I had drawn, so in typical me style I went with it.  Technicly there are more turrets foreward of midbreak than there are aft of it (I do agree that thats what the program is refering to on turret location also part of the problem siming this idea out) all my ships have had a masive break (7-9' depending on the ship) I have for several proposals bene trying to put a turret on the uper deck at midbreak to simulate what I saw in several historic ship pictures.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd sim Derrflinger with two turrets forward and two aft, as it doesn't look like there's any engine machinery between C and D.  I just don't know why there's big space between them.

I usually equate a midships turret to mean "between two sets of engine machinery", like Lion's third turret.

[Tanthalas]

I'd sim Derrflinger with two turrets forward and two aft, as it doesn't look like there's any engine machinery between C and D.  I just don't know why there's big space between them.

I usually equate a midships turret to mean "between two sets of engine machinery", like Lion's third turret.

I dont know why either, but I liked the look.  I originaly had the break set at 70% (that is on the 25 knot version) but I decided I didnt like it, so I moved it back foreward 1% at a time untill I liked where it set, ended up at 67% so the gun actualy sits at about 66%  I gleand the idea from looking at several historic ships, the WW2 Pships among them.  another thing I toyed around with was just a lowerd Quarterdeckand both aft mounts raised (there is room trust me LOL) but in the end I didnt like the look of that layout.