Maybe in ten years...

[Valles]

Asura, Maoria Design Concept laid down 1920

Displacement:
   67,405 t light; 70,510 t standard; 80,856 t normal; 89,133 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   874.41 ft / 869.42 ft x 131.23 ft x 32.81 ft (normal load)
   266.52 m / 265.00 m x 40.00 m  x 10.00 m

Armament:
      12 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,952.76lbs / 885.76kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      24 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      80 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (10x8 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 26,210 lbs / 11,889 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   17.7" / 450 mm   608.60 ft / 185.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   7.87" / 200 mm   260.79 ft / 79.49 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.36" / 60 mm   608.60 ft / 185.50 m   31.50 ft / 9.60 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.7" / 450 mm   11.8" / 300 mm      15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   7.87" / 200 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 7.87" / 200 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 74,149 shp / 55,315 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 18,623 tons

Complement:
   2,396 - 3,116

Cost:
   £12.939 million / $51.756 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,276 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 32,451 tons, 40.1 %
      - Belts: 8,900 tons, 11.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,675 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 7,169 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 13,992 tons, 17.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 714 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,593 tons, 3.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 28,111 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 13,451 tons, 16.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 975 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     204,816 lbs / 92,903 Kg = 104.9 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 44.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 10.6 ft / 3.2 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.756
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.54 ft / 0.47 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.81 ft / 10.00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Stern:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   29.72 ft / 9.06 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 51.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 225.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 96,055 Square feet or 8,924 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 223 lbs/sq ft or 1,088 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

700 tons unplanned weights
250 tons fire control
25 tons long-range wireless

This isn't an actual 'in character' design study so much as a projection of what I'd consider the Maori 'style' into the future. Major emphasis on seakeeping and durability, electric drive, a forest of light guns, limited speed, fore-and-aft balance - and a complete disregard for how much tonnage needs to be spent to accomplish all that.

I'm wondering what y'all'd have to face her in the same 'science fiction' future. ^_^

[Ithekro]

Just judging off her size, most countries would opt to out gun her with two or three ships that would total around her same weight.  Taking two 8 x 16" guns battleships to this one ship would be cheaper...as might taking two 12 x 16" guns ships of the 1920 American South Dakota class style.

Walter, any thoughts on the light verses normal weights with the huge bulkerage on this thing?

Also a question in general.  How much armor is too much armor?  This ship's weight is 40% armor. 

If other countries were arming to counter this, they would either plan for 18" like guns, or speed to close to killing range against her heavy armor and use numbers to fight her down.  (or a single will placed charge on her keel by SEAL-like teams...thinking Italian).  Two Rohirrim designed ships of about 1922 should be able to take her and only cost about 8,000 tons more in total to build.  It wiould take Maoria at least 13 Half Years to complete this ship at 5,185 tons of material a half year.  The Rohirrim ships would take 8 Half Years to complete at 4,716.25 tons of material a half year (each). That means if the two ships from Rohan are started in H1/1922 and the Maori ship is started H1/1920, the two Rohirrim ships will be finished first by about five months. (47 months to 76.5 months)

(These ships were designed as a "logical" progression of Rohirrim design a long time ago.  I've not altered it since roughly February 2006.  It would probably be a lot different by the time we get to sim year 1922.)

Goldwine
Theoden

Rohan Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
37,730 t light; 39,937 t standard; 42,750 t normal; 44,830 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
673.55 ft / 660.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
205.30 m / 201.17 m x 32.92 m x 9.14 m

Armament:
8 - 18.00" / 457 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,916.00lbs / 1,322.68kg shells, 1922 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1922 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1922 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 24,149 lbs / 10,954 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 430.00 ft / 131.06 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.25" / 83 mm 430.00 ft / 131.06 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 4.00" / 102 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 18.00" / 457 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 57,000 shp / 42,522 Kw = 22.48 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,064 tons)

Complement:
1,486 - 1,932

Cost:
£11.255 million / $45.021 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3,019 tons, 7.1 %
Armour: 16,465 tons, 38.5 %
- Belts: 6,852 tons, 16.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,551 tons, 3.6 %
- Armament: 4,437 tons, 10.4 %
- Armour Deck: 3,149 tons, 7.4 %
- Conning Tower: 476 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,934 tons, 4.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,313 tons, 38.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,020 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,439 lbs / 19,704 Kg = 14.9 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.700
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.30 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 18.96 ft / 5.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.8 %
Waterplane Area: 56,733 Square feet or 5,271 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 221 lbs/sq ft or 1,079 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Valles]

Hm. The Rohan twins between them would have 16 18" guns, 18" belt and 3" deck and the ability to absorb a total of... *guesstimates* ...about sixty Maori hits. Asura has twelve 16" guns,  18" belt and 8" deck and the ability to absorb a total of 75 Rohirrim hits.

Not great odds but not bad, either, especially at long ranges.

[Ithekro]

Rate of fire would be about the same for such large guns.  I don't imagine the twins verse triples would be much of an issue.  As noted the Rohirrim ships were designed in 2006, so as things progress we'll see if they end up that way, of if they start loosing side armor for deck armor....or if they even use 18" guns at all.  i was debating if I wanted to keep with the 2" increase in gun sizes, or switch back to Rohan's older 1.5" increase in gun sizes (which would result in the 1922 battleship guns being 17" instead of 18").  This wiuld also place the late 1910s and 1920 battleships being armed with 15.5" guns rather than 16" guns.

[The Rock Doctor]

Those octuple 50mm would be something to see.

The farthest out I've planned is 1913/4, and nothing remotely as large as these beasties.

[Ithekro]

Might never happen.  There could be another major war started by a naval arms race that results with a Washington Treaty like enviroment before these ships get laid down, or far enough along to complete under said treaty.

There there may never be a treaty and at some point someone will say that "this" (whatever that is) is big enough to produce in numbers for a battleline.  The few super huge ships will be anomolies that will have to be countered by numbers rather than in like kind.   Then at somepoint the aircraft carrier will likely take over the "Queen of the Fleet" position.  But that depends on the technology and its use in combat.  If there are no conflicts with enough carrier actions, the battleship will remain superior.

[The Rock Doctor]

Conceivably, we might find a push for a treaty even without a war - though it'd be a tough sell to me.

[Tanthalas]

The Unfortunate truth is I think we are going to end up with a war proly not in 1912 (most of us dont have enough fleet assets the last war showed that) but perhaps in 1916, we will just have to hang around and see what happens me thinks

[P3D]

Octuple mount is IMNSHO not feasible for 50mm guns. Those guns are almost twice as large (73%) than 40mm guns. A quad might be possible, but nothing larger - just no way you could feed it and achieve any reasonable ROF.

[Valles]

Octuple mount is IMNSHO not feasible for 50mm guns. Those guns are almost twice as large (73%) than 40mm guns. A quad might be possible, but nothing larger - just no way you could feed it and achieve any reasonable ROF.

Ahahahaha. You have no idea. ^_^
See, those aren't actually octuples like you saw in WW2; they're twinned four-barrel gatlings. There's a reason each of them has its own ammo hoist...

[Ithekro]

Okay, that is interesting.

[Korpen]

Octuple mount is IMNSHO not feasible for 50mm guns. Those guns are almost twice as large (73%) than 40mm guns. A quad might be possible, but nothing larger - just no way you could feed it and achieve any reasonable ROF.

Ahahahaha. You have no idea. ^_^
See, those aren't actually octuples like you saw in WW2; they're twinned four-barrel gatlings. There's a reason each of them has its own ammo hoist...

Cool, but very very silly.

[P3D]

Hm, largest revolver cannon I could find is of 35mm caliber. And that's from the 1990s.
And there were no belt-fed weapons with 20mm caliber until mid-1920s. 30mm autocannons were developed only in the 30s.

Hoist feed would limit ROF anyways to that of a single barrel.

[Ithekro]

Hmmmm.  A pre-arranged 8 shot burst followed either by a long reload time to fill all the barrels (and another 8 shot burst) or single load turn, single load turn, shoot, single load, shoot, single load, shoot, etc....  Ends loading with two-three shots in the barrels for a final small burst.  Not very efficient, though it could be highly amusing.

[P3D]

FYI.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun4.htm