Next batch of new ships. What, I was bored w/o internet for 2 weeks!?!

[Sachmle]

Fleet destroyer, much more capable than both the La Roija (or La Reject as we call them) and the D-100, of course they're 250t heavier.


D-200 Class, Naciones Unidas Destroyer laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

D-200 Class, Naciones Unidas Destroyer laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,039 t standard; 1,218 t normal; 1,361 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   317.00 ft / 314.00 ft x 27.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   96.62 m / 95.71 m x 8.23 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1904 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 120 lbs / 55 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   8 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,580 shp / 15,353 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 2,012nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 322 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.139 million / $0.556 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 9 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 646 tons, 53.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 279 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 218 tons, 17.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     299 lbs / 135 Kg = 9.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.559
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.40 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 186.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,965 Square feet or 554 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 55 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 116 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


A small (I think) minesweeper for clearing areas near the coast


M-1911 Class, Naciones Unidas Minesweeper laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

M-1911 Class, Naciones Unidas Minesweeper laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   460 t light; 472 t standard; 539 t normal; 592 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   205.00 ft / 200.00 ft x 27.40 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)
   62.49 m / 60.96 m x 8.35 m  x 2.44 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1904 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12 lbs / 6 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 2,142 ihp / 1,598 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 3,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 120 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   55 - 72

Cost:
   £0.041 million / $0.162 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 1 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 165 tons, 30.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 202 tons, 37.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 79 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 16.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     602 lbs / 273 Kg = 44.6 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
   Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.96 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   13.50 ft / 4.11 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   6.00 ft / 1.83 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m before break)
      - Stern:      4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.98 ft / 3.04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,442 Square feet or 320 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 35 lbs/sq ft or 171 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

10t W/T
60t Mines
20t Sweeping gear

A fleet minelayer, ment to work either in pairs or w/ a DD escort

Perro Class, Naciones Unidas Fleet Minelayer laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,700 t light; 1,758 t standard; 2,130 t normal; 2,428 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   365.00 ft / 362.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 9.00 ft (normal load)
   111.25 m / 110.34 m x 10.97 m  x 2.74 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1904 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 79 lbs / 36 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11,310 shp / 8,437 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 670 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   156 - 203

Cost:
   £0.147 million / $0.586 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 10 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 7 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 560 tons, 26.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 808 tons, 37.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 430 tons, 20.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 315 tons, 14.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,153 lbs / 1,430 Kg = 98.5 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 11.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.73

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.636
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.06 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -7.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,852 Square feet or 915 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 237 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.90
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

100t Mines is rails
10t W/T
200t Mines in hold
5t Crane for lifting mines

[P3D]

The destroyer has small bunkerage for its size. My new 750t korvettes have 240t bunkers.

The minesweeper should get a VTE and some range. Direct drive turbines are awful at the low speeds they should generally operate at (cut mine anchors, stop, use MGs and gun to destroy mine, repeat). Too fine hull form, I'd cut draught by 1'. There are a lot of similar designs out there.

The fleet minelayer is a waste of money. It can take less mines than the minesweepers, has less armament than a destroyer. Should be able to take at least 300 mines.

[Tanthalas]

IDK considering his operational area I think the DDs range is fine (lets face it he isnt going to trapse half way around the world in one any time soon)

[Korpen]

On D-200:
Unless i am wrong her range at top speed is around 180nm, barley enough to clear the Plata estuary. On the other hand she is coal fired, so unlikely to run round at top speed for that amount of time.
All-in-all i think it is a workable design, not really a leader in any area, but should get the job done.

On Sweeper:
Maybe a bit deep for inshore sweeping, but otherwise ok. Hard to go much wrong with sweepers. :)

On Minelayer:
Errr...
60 mines are what you stick on a BB as an afterthought, but it is not enough to motivate an entire ship with the purpose of carrying it. Either slow her down a bit and increase the mine load to at least 200-250mines (take a look at the Prikkeldraad-class), or use you DD design, strip away all FC, torpedoes and most guns. That should give you around 80-100 mines I would guess.

[Sachmle]

Reworked the sweeper w/ a 7' draught and lightend and labeled the misc weight. Just edited the original post, so you'll have to look up to see. I also added a VTE cruising engine for normal work and kept the turbine for "Oh, shit, they see us time." Not like 20kts is running from much, but if it gets her closer to another ship, or shore battery, or God then why not. I'll be working on upping the mine load on the minelayer.

Added later: Redid the DD so shes got more range. Lowered speed 1kt, now shes 1900nm @ 15kts, or 289nm @ 29kts.

Added even later: Now the minelayer has 300 mines and is a little heavier for it.

[The Rock Doctor]

I think those're pretty good.  The sweeper's maybe a little faster - and therefore heavier - than you need, but you could probably have her double as a patrol vessel.

I like the pics, but I find it curious that your fastest ship has a ram bow, and your slowest ship has a clipper bow...

[Sachmle]

Well.........oops  ::). It's Argentine engineering ;) And the 20kts on the sweeper are for the "Oh, shit, they found us!" moments.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
You do not have quad TT tech.


The minesweepers are - YES, you guessed - OVERGUNNED! What do they need the 6 light cannon form? Two 0,256/0,31 (6,5-8mm) machine guns are enough to blow up mines.

"Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines plus steam turbines"
Needless complication. And with 20 knots you still won't get away, not with that seaworthiness rating. I'd suggest 17-18 knots max, on the VTE.

As to the minesweeper
1 - at such displacement I would rate it good for 100-150 mines
2 - don't you have a class of smallcruisers, not much larger? Maybe build some of those to a "modified design", fewer guns and no T in rteturn for more mines?

Borys

[Sachmle]

Ahoj!
You do not have quad TT tech.

Where did I use quad TTs? The DD has two sets of twins on each SIDE.

The minesweepers are - YES, you guessed - OVERGUNNED! What do they need the 6 light cannon form? Two 0,256/0,31 (6,5-8mm) machine guns are enough to blow up mines.

What? The mgs are too much, but you're ok w/ the 3"?

"Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines plus steam turbines"
Needless complication. And with 20 knots you still won't get away, not with that seaworthiness rating. I'd suggest 17-18 knots max, on the VTE.

Strangely enought the mix system weighs less than just a VTE

As to the minesweeper
1 - at such displacement I would rate it good for 100-150 mines
2 - don't you have a class of smallcruisers, not much larger? Maybe build some of those to a "modified design", fewer guns and no T in rteturn for more mines?

Borys

1 - Why would I put mines on a minesweeper? It's job is to GET RID of mines, not leave more of them.
2 - Huh? I don't have a 600t cruiser, do you perhaps mean the minelayer?

[P3D]

1 - Why would I put mines on a minesweeper? It's job is to GET RID of mines, not leave more of them.

Then why have 100+t of misc weight? Minesweeper equipment and W/T would be less than 30t.
I prefer my similar ships as a dual-role minelayer/sweeper.

[Sachmle]

Oops... I saw a minesweeper design somewhere, either here, or Warship Projects boad w/ 75t sweeping equip and thought that was standard. I'll go w/ a change shortly. Thanks.

[Borys]

My typo - I meant minelayer, and wrote minesweeper.
A single 3" is undergunned :), but in your geographic location your minesweeprs are not likely to come into harm's way.

Borys

[Borys]

1 - Why would I put mines on a minesweeper? It's job is to GET RID of mines, not leave more of them.

Then why have 100+t of misc weight? Minesweeper equipment and W/T would be less than 30t.
I prefer my similar ships as a dual-role minelayer/sweeper.

I think that design could had been mine.
I did not manage to track down the weight of minesweeping equipment, so I preffered to err on the side of too much miscelenous weight.
I think it was quite common for minesweepers to be able to carry 20-30 mines.

Borys

[Sachmle]

At the risk of sounding Canadian, no offense Rocky, "Look up, see new." I re-redid the DD with even more range and also fixed the misc weight/speed thing on the sweeper.

[The Rock Doctor]

No offence taken - I'm not sure I've even heard the phrase before.