Dutch armoured frigate

[Korpen]

Intend to lay two of these ships down as replacements for the 20 years old Evertsen class, and as a bit of a tryout to see if i am in full compliance with the rules. Of, and for the fun of it as well. ;)

The range is the minimum required, it is enough range to go from the Dutch or Scottish bases to Kongo without refuelling.

The picure need some work, as it is my first attemt at drawing such early ships.

1st Replacement, The Netherlands Armoured frigate laid down 1902 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8 367 t light; 8 828 t standard; 10 247 t normal; 11 383 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   419,95 ft / 419,95 ft x 59,06 ft x 24,93 ft (normal load)
   128,00 m / 128,00 m x 18,00 m  x 7,60 m

Armament:
      4 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (2x2 guns), 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns in single mounts, 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 20,79lbs / 9,43kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 269 lbs / 1 937 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,09" / 180 mm   265,75 ft / 81,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   154,20 ft / 47,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   266,57 ft / 81,25 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,87" / 200 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      5,91" / 150 mm
   2nd:   7,87" / 200 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      5,91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   3,94" / 100 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      3,94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 2,17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20 000 shp / 14 920 Kw = 21,11 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 554 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   509 - 662

Cost:
   £0,980 million / $3,920 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 540 tons, 5,3 %
   Armour: 2 900 tons, 28,3 %
      - Belts: 1 336 tons, 13,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 791 tons, 7,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 713 tons, 7,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 667 tons, 16,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 239 tons, 31,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 881 tons, 18,4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10 036 lbs / 4 552 Kg = 23,8 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,7 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,79
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,580
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,16 ft / 4,62 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 802 Square feet or 1 654 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 565 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,97
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

8x150mm guns are a bit few.

Also, please have an armor that is effectively half inches/12.5mm after you use the correcction for armor quality.

So if you want 200mm effective armor, you have to build it 210mm thick.

[Korpen]

8x150mm guns are a bit few.

Also, please have an armor that is effectively half inches/12.5mm after you use the correcction for armor quality.

So if you want 200mm effective armor, you have to build it 210mm thick.

I corrected for the efficiency of my armour, but i have not bothered to try and make that number divide nicely with 12,5 as that was simply to much math for me, as sitting around going back and forth with a calculator several time for each armour plate on the ship was simply mindnumbingly boring.

1st Replacement, The Netherlands Armoured frigate laid down 1902 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   8 439 t light; 8 886 t standard; 10 253 t normal; 11 347 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   413,39 ft / 413,39 ft x 59,06 ft x 24,93 ft (normal load)
   126,00 m / 126,00 m x 18,00 m  x 7,60 m

Armament:
      4 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (2x2 guns), 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns in single mounts, 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1902 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4 462 lbs / 2 024 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   2 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7,44" / 189 mm   262,47 ft / 80,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   3,10" / 79 mm   150,92 ft / 46,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   4,13" / 105 mm   266,57 ft / 81,25 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      6,20" / 158 mm
   2nd:   8,27" / 210 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      6,20" / 158 mm
   3rd:   4,13" / 105 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,07" / 53 mm, Conning tower: 6,20" / 158 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20 000 shp / 14 920 Kw = 21,05 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 461 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   509 - 662

Cost:
   £1,002 million / $4,008 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 566 tons, 5,5 %
   Armour: 2 983 tons, 29,1 %
      - Belts: 1 390 tons, 13,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 854 tons, 8,3 %
      - Armour Deck: 676 tons, 6,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 63 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 1 650 tons, 16,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 229 tons, 31,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 814 tons, 17,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 591 lbs / 4 350 Kg = 22,7 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 2,7 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20,33 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Stern:      14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,16 ft / 4,62 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 681 Square feet or 1 643 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 568 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,00
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[maddox]

An 8000 tons frigate? 

More like an armored cruiser...

[P3D]

IIRC JLDOGG was calling his armored cruisers armored frigates.

[Ithekro]

Probably using an older style of naming (Ships of the Line than Frigates, sloops, barks, etc...) or something like what the Americans were doing until 1975 when we changed our maning system yet again because we'd finally retired all the World War II build warships and thus could redefine what cruisers, destroyers, and frigates were in the fleet.

[Korpen]

Posted some drawing of my older armoured frigates.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=675.0
Feel free to comment.  :)

There is also drawing of my battleships in the http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=676.0 thread.

[The Rock Doctor]

(Bump)

Finally got around to looking at your armored frigates, since they're getting involved in some confrontational situations.  Nice drawings - I like the old five-funnel one in particular, very period-appropriate.

[Korpen]

(Bump)

Finally got around to looking at your armored frigates, since they're getting involved in some confrontational situations.  Nice drawings - I like the old five-funnel one in particular, very period-appropriate.

Thanks! :)
de Zevern Provincien? She is maybe the most historic one, but my personal favourite is the ridiculously overgunned Flandern. :)
But I am not pleased with the look of my newest class, but then that is the drawing i made first.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I'd be inclined to term this ship a "2nd rate battleship".

Borys

[Korpen]

Ahoj!
I'd be inclined to term this ship a "2nd rate battleship".

Borys

I think that could be used for most of my armoured frigates, as most of them carries at least 8 24cm guns, and fairly good armour. Speed is another matter...
So when more moden ships start entering service, they will be re-classified as 2nd rate battleships, or something similar. As with most Netherlands ships, firepower is the priority.

[JLDogg]

Hiya all

Korpen is right I did call my large(armored) cruisers frigates and the smaller protected type sloops and the ships between sloops and DDs were corvettes.

[Korpen]

While I do not intend to do this at the moment, I played around with what a rebuild of Flandern would look like. The turbines and bunkers have been replaced on a ton-by-ton basis.
Guns and turrets would be repaired and upgraded to a slightly more powerful version.

Picture and orginal specs ship: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=675.msg4294#msg4294

Flandern, Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1900 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   12 950 t light; 13 619 t standard; 15 500 t normal; 17 005 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492,13 ft / 479,00 ft x 72,18 ft x 27,89 ft (normal load)
   150,00 m / 146,00 m x 22,00 m  x 8,50 m

Armament:
      6 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (3x2 guns), 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      6 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns in single mounts, 418,88lbs / 190,00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52,91lbs / 24,00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1900 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 992 lbs / 2 718 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   314,96 ft / 96,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   164,04 ft / 50,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   298,56 ft / 91,00 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      6,69" / 170 mm
   2nd:   8,27" / 210 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      6,69" / 170 mm
   3rd:   5,91" / 150 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,34" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36 802 shp / 27 455 Kw = 23,36 kts
   Range 10 995nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 386 tons

Complement:
   693 - 902

Cost:
   £1,321 million / $5,282 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 754 tons, 4,9 %
   Armour: 5 013 tons, 32,3 %
      - Belts: 2 469 tons, 15,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1 380 tons, 8,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 058 tons, 6,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 105 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 1 673 tons, 10,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5 210 tons, 33,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 550 tons, 16,5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17 311 lbs / 7 852 Kg = 41,0 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 2,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,05
   Metacentric height 3,4 ft / 1,0 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21,33 ft / 6,50 m
      - Mid (30 %):      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,17 ft / 4,63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 24 417 Square feet or 2 268 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 703 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,03
      - Longitudinal: 1,82
      - Overall: 1,09
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

The most intressting question is if it would be worth it.