Marius New BB of Italia Proposal

Started by Tanthalas, January 09, 2008, 01:56:03 AM

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Tanthalas

January 09, 2008, 01:56:03 AM


Italia-BB-1910, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,264 t standard; 24,744 t normal; 25,928 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   565.00 ft / 551.00 ft x 89.90 ft x 28.50 ft (normal load)
   172.21 m / 167.94 m x 27.40 m  x 8.69 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,631 lbs / 6,183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   222.00 ft / 67.67 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   27.02 ft / 8.24 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,452 shp / 19,733 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 9,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,663 tons

Complement:
   986 - 1,282

Cost:
   £2.343 million / $9.373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,672 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 9,481 tons, 38.3 %
      - Belts: 5,323 tons, 21.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 493 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,070 tons, 8.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,357 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 238 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,202 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,194 tons, 37.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,744 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,891 lbs / 15,826 Kg = 25.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.613
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.62 ft / 5.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,686 Square feet or 3,408 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 871 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Sachmle

#1
January 09, 2008, 02:05:53 AM
QuoteDimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   565.00 ft / 551.00 ft x 89.90 ft x 28.50 ft (normal load)
Be building her at Taranto I presume, since it's your only type 3 slip.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Tanthalas

#2
January 09, 2008, 02:07:27 AM Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 02:09:24 AM by Tanthalas
lol ya... gona have to build a few more with the growth in size of my ships...

But I decided that moving up to type 3s was unavoidable, so i just built her how I wanted to hell with where id have to build her.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

P3D

#3
January 09, 2008, 03:14:20 AM
The 12" barbettes are mostly sitting behind the 8" upper belt. To get 13" equivalent protection, 10" barbette armor would be enough (add half the thickness of the upper belt, and an extra inch for the exposed parts of the barbette). Weight savings should go IMO turret side armor - 6" would not provide protection even against some cruiser-sized shells (hope you don't have to fight more than one ship).

I'd have the same amount of armor on the upper belt and the secondaries, but that's personal preference (which usually has no agreement with yours ;) ). Also, you are paying twice for the armor - once for the upper belt, once for the casemated gun armour.
The first purpose of a warship is to remain afloat. Anon.
Below 40 degrees, there is no law. Below 50 degrees, there is no God. sailor's maxim on weather in the Southern seas

Sachmle

#4
January 09, 2008, 03:17:57 AM
Quote from: P3D on January 09, 2008, 03:14:20 AM
I'd have the same amount of armor on the upper belt and the secondaries, but that's personal preference (which usually has no agreement with yours ;) ). Also, you are paying twice for the armor - once for the upper belt, once for the casemated gun armour.
Now we're gonna confuse the poor kid, my god he's from Wyoming :P.. Borys is always telling me that 6" is too heavy for casemates because the things are manually trained and the poor SOB inside will keel over dead from the weight of 6" slab or armor. Now you're telling him 8" is OK. I personnally have no preference, I'd just prefer a straight answer.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Tanthalas

#5
January 09, 2008, 03:19:12 AM
hmmm I hadnt realy considerd the side armor on the turrets i sort of had other figured as top... oh well ill play around with it some more tomorow, lol ya that was the idea with the uber uper belt, was splinter / barb protection (thats why i only gave them 12" armor.  As usual its over armored as all hell for the most part, typical of my ships.  Oh well ill play with her after class tomorow.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

#6
January 09, 2008, 03:50:51 AM
Ahoj!
You are getting two straight answers from two twisted fellows :)

I like this ship. My battleshipos, currently under construction, are practically identical (slightly faster, one main gun less), but fit type 2 facilities.

Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Sachmle

#7
January 09, 2008, 03:55:43 AM
Are there really any non-twisted people here? If so  they must be expunged, they're perverting our knowlege pool.  :D I'm I misthinking on the casemate armor? I'd guess I'd like to know for future ships.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

Borys

#8
January 09, 2008, 03:57:54 AM Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 08:56:37 AM by Borys
Ahoj!
Honestly, seeing as that there are different interpretations of what exactly casematte armour is, and for once I am not conceited enought to believe my view is TRUTH, I asked more knowledgable folks at warships1. If you a wesworld guy maybe ask there too?
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Tanthalas

#9
January 10, 2008, 12:37:22 AM
Italia-BB-1910, Italia Battle Ship laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,264 t standard; 24,744 t normal; 25,928 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   565.00 ft / 551.00 ft x 89.90 ft x 28.50 ft (normal load)
   172.21 m / 167.94 m x 27.40 m  x 8.69 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,631 lbs / 6,183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   222.00 ft / 67.67 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   329.00 ft / 100.28 m   27.02 ft / 8.24 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 26,450 shp / 19,732 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 9,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,663 tons

Complement:
   986 - 1,282

Cost:
   £2.343 million / $9.373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,672 tons, 6.8 %
   Armour: 9,517 tons, 38.5 %
      - Belts: 5,322 tons, 21.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 493 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,106 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,357 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 238 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,202 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,159 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,744 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,854 lbs / 15,809 Kg = 25.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.81
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.57

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.613
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.62 ft / 5.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,686 Square feet or 3,408 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 178 lbs/sq ft or 868 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.83
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

uped the armor on the turret sides
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

#10
January 10, 2008, 12:39:54 AM
Looks very good.
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

Sachmle

#11
January 10, 2008, 01:58:43 AM
Ya, is goode.  I like it.
"All treaties between great states cease to be binding when they come in conflict with the struggle for existence."
Otto von Bismarck

"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
Kaiser Wilhelm

"If stupidity were painfull I would be deaf from all the screaming." Sam A. Grim

The Rock Doctor

#12
January 10, 2008, 06:18:07 AM
Looks good to me.  I take it you're comfortable with 20 knots as your battleline speed?

Tanthalas

#13
January 10, 2008, 10:47:03 AM Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 11:20:24 AM by Tanthalas
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on January 10, 2008, 06:18:07 AM
Looks good to me.  I take it you're comfortable with 20 knots as your battleline speed?

ya i decided awhile ago that the main BBs would be 20 knots (as I view them as largely defensive and well Cities cant run ya know)  I also decided to build in the ability for them to get faster in the future, you all proly noticed im giving them insanly high seaboat ratings, this was so that when i get Newer (read LIGHTER) engines i could fit them with better Turbines and efectivly keep them usefull with faster line units.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

The Rock Doctor

#14
January 10, 2008, 11:20:44 AM Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 11:23:55 AM by The Rock Doctor
That is true.  I think I've settled on 21 knots for GC, but that'll probably creep upward as time goes by.

In response to your edit, I reckon I have the same capability to up-engine later on.  My early designs lacked the freeboard for this, but I made a conscious decision around 1905 to allow for this.
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