CL-1910 (aka the replacement for all my out of date crap cruisers)

[Tanthalas]

CL-1910, Italia Light Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,000 t light; 2,089 t standard; 2,401 t normal; 2,650 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   377.35 ft / 360.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
   115.02 m / 109.73 m x 10.97 m  x 3.96 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 450 lbs / 204 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,117 shp / 14,261 Kw = 26.20 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 561 tons

Complement:
   170 - 222

Cost:
   £0.239 million / $0.956 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 56 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 30 tons, 1.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 23 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 869 tons, 36.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 979 tons, 40.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 401 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,736 lbs / 787 Kg = 27.8 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.499
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.46 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m before break)
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.00 ft / 4.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,625 Square feet or 801 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 293 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 2.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

Your hoist armor looks like it would set off more shells than keep out.

[Tanthalas]

Your hoist armor looks like it would set off more shells than keep out.

more like weather shields.  max limit is 1" after all

[Ithekro]

Not the sheilds, the hoists under the deck.  The 2 inches of steel that will probably set off any 4 or 5 inch shell that comes through there.

[Tanthalas]

Better?

CL-1910, Italia Light Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2,000 t light; 2,089 t standard; 2,401 t normal; 2,650 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   377.35 ft / 360.00 ft x 36.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
   115.02 m / 109.73 m x 10.97 m  x 3.96 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 450 lbs / 204 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,117 shp / 14,261 Kw = 26.20 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 11.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 561 tons

Complement:
   170 - 222

Cost:
   £0.239 million / $0.956 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 56 tons, 2.3 %
   Armour: 34 tons, 1.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 869 tons, 36.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 982 tons, 40.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 401 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 59 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,742 lbs / 790 Kg = 27.9 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.499
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.46 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m before break)
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.00 ft / 4.57 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 138.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,625 Square feet or 801 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 60 lbs/sq ft or 294 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

Well....in a way.  It will stop cruiser shells now.  I was actaully thinking of less armor so the shells might pass though without exploding in the hoist.

[Tanthalas]

Well....in a way.  It will stop cruiser shells now.  I was actaully thinking of less armor so the shells might pass though without exploding in the hoist.

... LOL i only want it to stop destroyer shels... so what say 4"?

[Ithekro]

With the destroyers in service these days sporting 3" and 4" guns normally, 3 inches of armor should do it.  Some slightly larger rounds, like the 4.5" and 4.7" seem rare in your region of the world, and will probably also be stopped by modern steels 3 inches thick.  4 inches will stop it most of the time (remember nothing is certain)  6 inches will likely stop any round smaller than 6 inches except at short range, but that depends on the shells and steel used.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I consider hoists to be splinter protection. 1 inch max.
the "sploratori pesati" look interesting.
Looks way too modern - HMS Hawkins?
How about
- two guns fore, one behind the other (Japanese style)
- singleton behind funnel
- two guns aft, maybe one superfiring?

And maybe delete the three inchers and put some boats there?
:)

Borys

[Tanthalas]

problem with deleating the 3" guns is I used them to eat up tonage...

[Borys]

May I suggest increasing shell allocation to 200-250 per gun?
Borys

[Sachmle]

I think it's the superstructure and the lowered quarterdeck that give it that 1930's look. Maybe a flush deck, w/ the TT on the sides and a smaller superstructure w/ the 3" in deck mounts instead of casemates and fewere of them, maybe 4-6 total.  Could increase range/speed to "eat" tonnage, especially if you raise the quaterdeck, as it should protect your seakeeping a little.

[Sachmle]

(After IM from Tanthalas finishes tearing me to pieces)
Sorry.......must......not......raise..........freeboard..........of........quarter....deck...eve..r...ugh

[Tanthalas]

Another Option for the same purpose.



Italia DDE 1910, Italia Escort Destroyer laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,047 t standard; 1,276 t normal; 1,460 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   327.00 ft / 320.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
   99.67 m / 97.54 m x 9.75 m  x 3.50 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 250 lbs / 114 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 19,021 shp / 14,190 Kw = 28.87 kts
   Range 8,700nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 413 tons

Complement:
   106 - 138

Cost:
   £0.147 million / $0.587 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 31 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 611 tons, 47.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 304 tons, 23.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 276 tons, 21.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     326 lbs / 148 Kg = 5.2 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.380
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 78
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.30 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.66 ft / 3.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 88.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,243 Square feet or 580 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 128 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

The BC is a smidgen low for my liking - I figure 0.40 is as low as one should go.

As a destroyer, I like her - but she's not a cruiser substitute.  Too frail.