Air Unit Cost

[Blooded]

Hello,

I have been waiting to post my report in hope of some 'official' costs on aircraft things. I had planned on the $1 airfield and $0.1 for 60 aircraft(1910 level)-as suggested in the air force section.  I think we should have costs increase per level of airtech. $0.2 for 60 aircraft(1914 level) perhaps. Costs for Bombers should be more(at least 2x -perhaps per engine?). I had thought that this was being discused elsewhere but hadn't noticed any decision.

We probably do not need to separate aircraft into catagories yet(seaplane, Bomber, Fighter, etc.) What effect would we see on armies, populations, naval battles at this stage? Recon became very useful late WW1 (Bonus to Army?), and torpedo aircraft had been sucessful on occasion in late WW1(this could be painful). Bombers are the only aircraft with truly useful range early on(minor loss of IC due to morale hits and bombing?).

Ideas?

[Carthaginian]

Well, until the mid 1910's (fast approaching), nothing aircraft could do really did anything.

I have a large fleet of airships to patrol the Caribbean, and they are excellent naval observers. Hanger cost makes them expensive on startup, but they are cheap to maintain and give 6 good years of service, meaning that the 1907 models I paid for are only halfway through their useful lives ATM. They aren't too good at attacking (moving) ships, but could be useful in bombing infrastructure if you had a lot of them to throw at the problem, and the enemy didn't have good anti-air defenses or at least WWI aircraft.

Aircraft are still a good 15 years or so from TRUE usefulness, but the beginnings of their effect will be felt pretty soon. Anti-airship roles will be the most important for a while (killing enemy spotters) and of course the only effective way to kill an airplane is with another airplane.

Cost of aircraft... hmmmm, now that's a toughy.
I think I like your 'Penny per Level' idea- simple, yet elegant. Instead of 60, though, I'd say a penny buys you either 50 or 100 aircraft (just to keep things nice and round), and airfields are $.50 per tech level. No difference between seaplanes or land-based planes, and no extra expense for carrier-borne varriants (just to keep it simple). How about this:

1902 : Primitive flying machines (storyline stuff only)
AIRCRAFT: No cost, just sane numbers (maybe 100 or so max)
AIRFIELDS: No cost, but you can't use them for anything past this level

1906 :Historical 1910 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.10 for 100 single-engine aircraft (not really any 'types' at this level)
AIRFIELDS: $0.50 per airfield; basically, just a flattened piece of land

1910: historical 1914 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.10 for 100 single-engine aircraft
                $0.20 for 50 multi-engine aircraft (with historical bomb load)
AIRFIELDS: $1.00 per airfield; includes hangers, fuel tanks, support personnel

1913: historical 1916 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.20 for 100 single-engine aircraft (fighter or bomber with historic loads)
                $0.30 for 50 multi-engine aircraft (with historical bomb load)
                $0.40 for 25 long-range bombers (with historical bomb load)
AIRFIELDS: $1.50/.5BP per airfield; includes hangers, fuel tanks, support personnel

1915: historical 1918 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.30 for 100 single-engine aircraft (fighter or bomber with historic loads)
                $0.40for 50 multi-engine aircraft (with historical bomb load)
                $0.50 for 25 long-range bombers (with historical bomb load)
AIRFIELDS: $2.00/1BP per airfield; includes hangers, fuel tanks, support personnel

1920: historical 1922 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.40 for 100 single-engine aircraft (fighter or bomber with historic loads)
                $0.50 for 50 multi-engine aircraft (with historical bomb load)
                $0.60 for 25 long-range bombers (with historical bomb load)
AIRFIELDS: $2.50/1.5BP per airfield; includes hangers, fuel tanks, support personnel

1928: historical 1930 aircrafts
AIRCRAFT: $0.50 for 100 single-engine aircraft (fighter or bomber with historic loads)
                $0.60 for 50 multi-engine aircraft (with historical bomb load)
                $0.70 for 25 early long-range bombers (with historical bomb load)
AIRFIELDS: $2.50/2BP per airfield; includes hangers, fuel tanks, support personnel


I'm open to further suggestions/modifications to this.
Anyone else got some imput?


EDIT: Raised costs as per later suggestions.
Now $0.10 per tech level increase in aircraft prices.

[The Rock Doctor]

I like how you're breaking out the various units, but the costs may be low - at $0.1, a small airship would cost as much as a thousand 1910-vintage aircraft.

[Carthaginian]

I like how you're breaking out the various units, but the costs may be low - at $0.1, a small airship would cost as much as a thousand 1910-vintage aircraft.

Maybe up it to $0.10 increments?
That's not too unreasonable, I think...

[Tanthalas]

I would tend to agree with Carth on this one, and let me do a little diging im sure I can find out what a 1914 plane cost OTL

[Ithekro]

The cost would not be just the planes, but also the pilots and probably the ground crew.

[Tanthalas]

ya but atm the ground crew and pilot are realy one and the same, "Pilot Training" at the point we are at would be well there is your plane have fun...

[Carthaginian]

The cost would not be just the planes, but also the pilots and probably the ground crew.

Upkeep would be necessary, just as with airships, and at the same rate per squadron.
That would cover the pilots and ground crews.

[Tanthalas]

the Curtis FLyer in 1910 cost $3000.00 (acording to my book on Naval aviation)

[Blooded]

Hello,

Upkeep should be alot as the aircraft were practically throwaways. France was producing something like 3000 Aircraft a month(maybe it was per year but I think it was month) by 1917(1918?) They seem the only fair example as there RL empire and ours appear similar in size.

We also may need some sort of cap on numbers since they appear cheap(but then again of little real value until 1916 or so).

Not so sure about airfield costs increasing, they were rather simple affairs at this stage.

I just got the basics from the Aircraft section, it is still early to hammer out details probably but I need some for my stories(of which I am far behind in posting-hopefully I have not lost them- I still have my notes i guess- BTW my normal computer has crapped out on me)

[Borys]

Ahpoj!

BTW my normal computer has crapped out on me)

It is a Sign!
Borys

[Carthaginian]

Upkeep should be alot as the aircraft were practically throwaways. France was producing something like 3000 Aircraft a month(maybe it was per year but I think it was month) by 1917(1918?) They seem the only fair example as there RL empire and ours appear similar in size.

Remember, though, that was during WWI.
Everything, from men to canteens to tanks and ships were 'throw away' assets at the time. I think that upkeep as per army rules should be sufficient as long as the costs stay reasonably low. After all, we'll be approaching army unit COSTS when aircraft get into 1930's levels, and thus become truly useful (especially if we go to $0.10 per tech level).

We also may need some sort of cap on numbers since they appear cheap(but then again of little real value until 1916 or so).

Well, as you said, during WWI, France was producing 3000 per month!
No real need for caps. At first, usefulness will limit production.
Later on, when numbers would increase, there would be historical precident for large (and even huge) air forces.

Not so sure about airfield costs increasing, they were rather simple affairs at this stage.

Well, as planes get more advanced, you need better airfields.
You gotta show this somehow, and I figured a small raise in price to represent the extra infrastructure needed to support each successive generation of planes would be about right. It can eventually plateau, though, as by the 30's you pretty much had reached a stopping point in airfield development until the jet age.

I just got the basics from the Aircraft section, it is still early to hammer out details probably but I need some for my stories(of which I am far behind in posting-hopefully I have not lost them- I still have my notes i guess- BTW my normal computer has crapped out on me)

If at firsts you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

[The Rock Doctor]

Sorry about the thread necromancy.

Question:  Are you guys comfortable with the current method for aircraft purchase (which is to say, you can build as many as you can afford), or do we need a constraint of some kind?  This could take the form of, among other options:

-Assigning a modest BP cost to aircraft (perhaps 1:1 with dollar cost)

-Capping the number of aircraft that can built (one "set" of aircraft per BP)

Your thoughts?

[Desertfox]

I brought this up briefly during the War. I don't like the current aircraft rules at all. We shouldn't be paying for airfields or planes. I think that we should be paying for "factories" instead. A factory would be capable of producing a certain number of "free" planes per half. The number and level of factories would be the limiting factor as to how many planes you could build per half.

[Logi]

I like DF's idea ;)