New Ships of Naciones Unidas

[Sachmle]

As times change so to does technology, and La Marina has decieded a new generation of ships is needed to support the policy and plans of the Naciones Unidas now and in the future.  Therefore the following vessel class will begin construction in this HY and into the following.

Union Class, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   4,400 t light; 4,561 t standard; 5,419 t normal; 6,105 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.00 ft / 393.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 18.10 ft (normal load)
   119.79 m / 119.79 m x 17.07 m  x 5.52 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 546 lbs / 248 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   2.00" / 51 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,995 shp / 26,852 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,545 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   315 - 410

Cost:
   £0.461 million / $1.843 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 615 tons, 11.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 44 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 531 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,782 tons, 32.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,835 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,019 tons, 18.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,446 lbs / 2,470 Kg = 50.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.476
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.02 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.82 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.75 ft / 4.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   14.75 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.75 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.88 ft / 5.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,353 Square feet or 1,333 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 386 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Rapido Class, NUS Heavy Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9,100 t light; 9,435 t standard; 11,029 t normal; 12,304 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   565.35 ft / 557.00 ft x 47.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   172.32 m / 169.77 m x 14.33 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     6 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,300 lbs / 590 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   357.00 ft / 108.81 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   192.00 ft / 58.52 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     8.00 ft / 2.44 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   357.00 ft / 108.81 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,703 shp / 35,586 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,869 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   537 - 699

Cost:
   £0.786 million / $3.142 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 163 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 2,941 tons, 26.7 %
      - Belts: 1,993 tons, 18.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 525 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 359 tons, 3.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,362 tons, 21.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,535 tons, 32.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,929 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,316 lbs / 6,494 Kg = 55.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.614
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.16 ft / 6.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,405 Square feet or 1,803 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 429 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

D-100 Class, NUS DD laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 794 t standard; 975 t normal; 1,119 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   331.25 ft / 328.00 ft x 29.50 ft x 8.50 ft (normal load)
   100.97 m / 99.97 m x 8.99 m  x 2.59 m

Armament:
      1 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 191 lbs / 87 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,137 shp / 9,054 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 325 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   86 - 113

Cost:
   £0.108 million / $0.432 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 24 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 21 tons, 2.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 440 tons, 45.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 243 tons, 24.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 225 tons, 23.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 23 tons, 2.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     306 lbs / 139 Kg = 2.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.65
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.415
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.25 ft / 0.99 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 167.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,011 Square feet or 558 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 68 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 116 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 0.81
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

D-100 Class, NUS DD laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

A interesting ship, could you explain the thinking behind her reather odd arnament? Once 15cm gun and som seventyfives seems a odd choice as armament on such as ship, so knowing the thinking that lead to that would be fun and interesting. :)

[Sachmle]

My plan was to use the 6" on other DD's and to at least hold off a PC/CL until the cavalry arrived/I got away. NUS hasn't developed a 5" gun yet and I thought 4" was a little light for getting the attention of smaller cruisers. The 3" are to take out TBs and should also be effective against other DDs of similar size.  She's probably more like a modern DD, with 1 heavy gun, but we'll have to see if the idea works.

[Ithekro]

Do you plan on advancing on larger targets until help arrives or running and praying?  How your navy plans to enact such activities could deturming where that gun should be mounted.

[Sachmle]

As my light units are mostly for scouting/fleet screening they will more often than not run into things they would rather not run into.  Also if advancing for a torpedo attack it would be nice to be able to distract the enemy ship, if even only a little bit.

[The Rock Doctor]

I won't both repeating the DD gun comment, but I think it'd be a bit crowded with seven deck mounts plus the torpedo.

The cross-sectional hull strength on the destroyer is 0.51 - you could probably add 2 or 3 t to miscellaneous weight before it dips to 0.49.  Might be worth it later on.

I like the CL.  It seems well balanced, and the freeboard is good and high for your southern seas.

The CA is technically okay, but what're you planning to do with her? 

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I expect the chances of the 6 incher on the small ship hitting anything to be similar to that of the HMS Hood blowing up from one hit.
Lively boat, slippery deck, manhandling 100 lbs shells and separate case (bag?).  On the high seas, at speed? No way.
The S-113 and Narviks were too small for 15cm guns - while being 4 times larger.

I agree on the 4 inchers - on their own - not having enough oomph to make a lasting impression on the new belted cruisers. But for a cruiser's job you simply need a cruiser. And your protected cruiser is a good tool for that. The 6 inchers are capable of punching through belts, while the 4 inchers should cause some lively fires.

The Armoured Cruier looks nice - smallish but fastish. I somehow like this 2nd class AC. A heavy scout. And an excellent raider. I think you should be able to put those 4 inchers on the deck. Maybe replace them with 6-8 larger guns, of 6 inch calibre? In deck mounts. Or deck level casemattes?
If I had the money I'd buy 4 for colonial duties. I'd rearm them with 7,5 inchers, though. For an armament of 2x2x7,5" + 6-8x6".

Borys

[Sachmle]

Took your comment on the DD to heart, so here's a redesign.

D-100 Class, NUS DD laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 786 t standard; 970 t normal; 1,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   331.25 ft / 328.00 ft x 29.50 ft x 8.50 ft (normal load)
   100.97 m / 99.97 m x 8.99 m  x 2.59 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 130 lbs / 59 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 12,087 shp / 9,017 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 4,100nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 332 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   86 - 112

Cost:
   £0.103 million / $0.411 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 1.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 450 tons, 46.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 227 tons, 23.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 220 tons, 22.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     289 lbs / 131 Kg = 9.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.63
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.25 ft / 0.99 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 167.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,686 Square feet or 528 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 111 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.80
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.413
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.12 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.25 ft / 0.99 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Springsharp never consider guns to be mounted on the portions considred forecasle, so if the three guns that are supposed to be mounted forward are to be able to fire forward, they have to be raised.

That said, the Netherlands can sell an exellent 12cm L50 gun with 21kg shells (24 on capital ships), well suited to the needs of a DD. :)

Of course, plans and maybe entire ships of the G-Class destroyer might be for sale...

[Borys]

That said, the Netherlands can sell an exellent 12cm L50 gun with 21kg shells

cough ... cough

:)

Borys

[Korpen]

That said, the Netherlands can sell an exellent 12cm L50 gun with 21kg shells

cough ... cough

:)

Borys

True that the L45 might be better on a DD, but they use the same ammo anyway.
But the 12cm guns are an exellent compromise, about the same ROF as a 105mm gun, but with more powerfull shells, and much better effect against cruisers and ships with armour.

[Sachmle]

Try as I might couldn't find a way to put 6" on her in any real number, so I increased the number of 4" and put them in deck mounts for a better firing arc.

Rapido Class, NUS Cruiser laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   9,110 t light; 9,451 t standard; 11,108 t normal; 12,433 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   565.35 ft / 557.00 ft x 47.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   172.32 m / 169.77 m x 14.33 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x2 guns), 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1904 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,340 lbs / 608 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   195.00 ft / 59.44 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   362.00 ft / 110.34 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,973 shp / 35,788 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,982 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   540 - 703

Cost:
   £0.795 million / $3.178 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 171 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 2,916 tons, 26.2 %
      - Belts: 2,017 tons, 18.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 474 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 360 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 64 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,375 tons, 21.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,549 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,998 tons, 18.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,271 lbs / 6,473 Kg = 55.7 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.86

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.619
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.94 ft / 1.20 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24.50 ft / 7.47 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.17 ft / 6.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,485 Square feet or 1,810 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 430 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.07
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!

That said, the Netherlands can sell an exellent 12cm L50 gun with 21kg shells

cough ... cough

:)

Borys

True that the L45 might be better on a DD, but they use the same ammo anyway.
But the 12cm guns are an exellent compromise, about the same ROF as a 105mm gun, but with more powerfull shells, and much better effect against cruisers and ships with armour.

I consider the practical ROF of a 4,7" gun on a 500-1000 tonnes boat to be about one third of a 4" weapon.

The performance on the 12cm weapon would improve as the ship gets larger. But still a hypothetical WWII Tribal class destroyer with 5x2x102mm would have had heavier "throw-weight" than  the historical 4x2x12cm.
Borys

[Korpen]

True that the L45 might be better on a DD, but they use the same ammo anyway.
But the 12cm guns are an exellent compromise, about the same ROF as a 105mm gun, but with more powerfull shells, and much better effect against cruisers and ships with armour.

I consider the practical ROF of a 4,7" gun on a 500-1000 tonnes boat to be about one third of a 4" weapon.

The performance on the 12cm weapon would improve as the ship gets larger. But still a hypothetical WWII Tribal class destroyer with 5x2x102mm would have had heavier "throw-weight" than  the historical 4x2x12cm.
Borys

If one use split ammunition, slow breaches and bagged charges (requiring dubble ramming) then yes the ROF will be much slower. If using single-motion breach, and fixed or semi-fixed ammo, the ROF sould be pretty much identical to a 10,5 (between 7 and 15rpm).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The KuKK version - not so good, although better suited for longer steaming.
Borys
Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   8 886 t light; 9 240 t standard; 10 414 t normal; 11 353 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   577,00 ft / 577,00 ft x 51,00 ft x 22,00 ft (normal load)
   175,87 m / 175,87 m x 15,54 m  x 6,71 m

Armament:
      4 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 2,00" / 50,8 mm guns in single mounts, 4,00lbs / 1,81kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 608 lbs / 730 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   362,00 ft / 110,34 m   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
   Ends:   4,00" / 102 mm   195,00 ft / 59,44 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     20,00 ft / 6,10 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   362,00 ft / 110,34 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
     Main Belt covers 97% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7,50" / 191 mm   5,00" / 127 mm      6,00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 44 975 shp / 33 551 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 113 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   515 - 670

Cost:
   £0,803 million / $3,212 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 215 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 2 858 tons, 27,4%
      - Belts: 2 090 tons, 20,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 302 tons, 2,9%
      - Armour Deck: 385 tons, 3,7%
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2 226 tons, 21,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 337 tons, 32,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 528 tons, 14,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 556 lbs / 5 242 Kg = 54,8 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,00 ft / 8,23 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Mid (70%):      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Stern:      17,00 ft / 5,18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,80 ft / 5,43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130,7%
   Waterplane Area: 20 789 Square feet or 1 931 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 454 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,15
      - Overall: 1,01
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily