Everything Old Is New Again

[Carthaginian]

The Confederate Navy, strapped for funds and with a cruiser fleet verging on total obsolescence, decided that building a class of 5 modern battleships was too expensive and has discontinued the 4th and 5th ships of the Nuevo Leon classes. To compensate, the Texas and Georgia classes will receive a complete modernization during 1910 and 1911, respectively. The two classes (which had minimum differences anyway) will be rebuilt into virtually identical ships with all new guns, engines and reworked armor* and a reworked, smaller superstructure.

Texas (1910), Confederate States of America Battleship laid down 1895 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   9,000 t light; 9,478 t standard; 11,160 t normal; 12,506 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   121.92 m / 121.92 m x 22.25 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 800.00lbs / 362.87kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      10 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns (5x2 guns), 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1910 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4,351 lbs / 1,973 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   225.00 ft / 68.58 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,000 ihp / 9,698 Kw = 18.29 kts
   Range 4,036nm at 18.29 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,028 tons

Complement:
   542 - 705

Cost:
   £0.916 million / $3.662 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 584 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 3,705 tons, 33.2 %
      - Belts: 2,241 tons, 20.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 743 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 613 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 108 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 788 tons, 7.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,648 tons, 32.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,160 tons, 19.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,390 lbs / 7,434 Kg = 19.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (60 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,103 Square feet or 2,053 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 125 lbs/sq ft or 612 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Geroga (1910), Confederate States of America Battleship laid down 1897 (Engine 1910)

Displacement:
   9,025 t light; 9,453 t standard; 11,160 t normal; 12,526 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
   121.92 m / 121.92 m x 22.25 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 800.00lbs / 362.87kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      10 - 3.50" / 88.9 mm guns (5x2 guns), 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      12 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,351 lbs / 1,973 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   120.00 ft / 36.58 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   225.00 ft / 68.58 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      3.00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,000 ihp / 9,698 Kw = 18.29 kts
   Range 4,100nm at 18.29 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,074 tons

Complement:
   542 - 705

Cost:
   £0.916 million / $3.666 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 584 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 3,818 tons, 34.2 %
      - Belts: 2,325 tons, 20.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 773 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 613 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 108 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 788 tons, 7.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,560 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,135 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 275 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,375 lbs / 7,427 Kg = 19.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (60 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 22,103 Square feet or 2,053 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 597 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous Weight Breakdown:
250t - Fire Control Systems
  25t - Long-Range Marconi


*The armor and gun layout on these ships I inherited was insane, and I had to do something or it would have been completely wacko on this new ship after I made sure that all the measurements worked and everything could actually fit in the hull. I adjusted it, keeping it as close to the original as possible and added in enough BP to take care of the weight that had to be added in.

[P3D]

Fire Control does not weight 250t.
Engine year should be 1909 even for reciprocating engines.

[Korpen]

Fire Control does not weight 250t.

When did that change?
And what does it weight now?

[Tanthalas]

True story I thought it was 250 tons to

[P3D]

I do not remember any specific weight prescribed for FC/radar/etc. Only for W/T.

[Tanthalas]

there was a post somewhere recomending 250 tons for FC.  It wasnt a cast in Granite rule but more of an advisment

[Korpen]

there was a post somewhere recomending 250 tons for FC.  It wasnt a cast in Granite rule but more of an advisment

It was more then a recommendation, It was the number those who got FC before it became "open" was given as the amount necessary for carrying the FC system and associated equipment (such as tripods).

But threre is another thread for that debate:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1781.0

[Carthaginian]

Fire Control does not weight 250t.
Engine year should be 1909 even for reciprocating engines.

Fire Control was 250t.
Has been since people started putting it there, and it's what it will be as far as I know.
Apparently, we need some hard, fast agreed-upon weights.

And the engines can be corrected after Christmas.
Was a simple oversight and with luck won't kill too much of my plan.
If I have to, I can sarifice a few more 5.5" guns.

[maddox]

Originaly "add on , experimental firecontrole" ate in the misc weight budget.  As did marconies.

Now, Marconies are well know, and getting standard in all the worlds warships.

Fire control, even accepted in some navies, isn't to well understood yet by the naval designers, and they play it safe.  Give it a few years to get familiar.

For now, a firecontrol equipped ship, with "add on firecontrol" will need the 250 tons (but that includes the marconi). And to avoid 17 different "additional" rules , even newly construct will ask for the 250 tons.

The definitive rule will follow. And that will include a set date for the change.