Glorious French small Torpedo boat

[maddox]

France did inquire all over the world about small ,fast combatants. As suited to the Jeune Ecole.
But non of the designs appeased the Marine Nationale top brass.
Most heared complaints from the mid ranked observers.  

Merde, this ship is build by midgets, for midgets.
I would rather ride in a new fangled electric washing machine, that doesn't roll, pitch and yawn as much as this.
If you leave the harbor with this, pray the weather stays perfect.
What? This tub has 4 days of patrolling endurance? What was it ment for? Patrol the Seine?

So, in the end, French engineers developed a small patrol vessel. Not the fastest ship around, nor with the longest range. Nor with any heavy armament, but adequate in all respects, and for her size, about the most comfortable ship possible.
The only thing that is an issue is the oil firing of the powerplant.

Pluche, French Small torpedo boat destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   346 t light; 356 t standard; 386 t normal; 410 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   223,10 ft / 219,82 ft x 21,33 ft x 6,56 ft (normal load)
   68,00 m / 67,00 m x 6,50 m  x 2,00 m

Armament:
     2 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 22 lbs / 10 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   2 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8.517 shp / 6.353 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 1.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 54 tons

Complement:
   43 - 56

Cost:
   £0,043 million / $0,171 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 202 tons, 52,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 131 tons, 34,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 39 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 2,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     135 lbs / 61 Kg = 12,9 x 2,8 " / 70 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 0,7 ft / 0,2 m
   Roll period: 10,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,439
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,31 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Mid (50%):      10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   10,50 ft / 3,20 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,92 ft / 3,33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,1%
   Waterplane Area: 2.964 Square feet or 275 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 48%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 97 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 3,26
      - Overall: 0,60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc weight
4 tons torpedo and tubes
5 tons very small marconi
1 ton crew comfort messures (Insulation, heating and ventilation/cooling of the messroom)

[The Rock Doctor]

If the issue is that oil might be in scarce supply in some of the operating areas, that would be a legitimate issue.

Otherwise, it is a fairly glorious torpedo boat.

[Tanthalas]

I think it's more like oil isn't exactly a common commodity anywhere at this point in history.  Add to that that France has no domestic source of oil, and I can understand the French reluctance to use oil burning

[maddox]

Currently France has only 1 source of oil, and that is the CSA. 

Now, even if I build 50 of these TBD's the amount of fuel oil I need on year base is aboutish 50000 tons.
In the worst case France can make that from hydrolizing coal.(Fisher-Trops)

[Ithekro]

Coal oil burning maybe?

[maddox]

It's possible to collect  liquid oil residues from cokes ovens.
But then you're wasting a lot of energy and good coal to get that second rated, very heavy fuel alike something.

[maddox]

An enlarged version, with heavier armament and longer range.

Plumeau, French Torpedo boat destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   503 t light; 522 t standard; 617 t normal; 692 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   265,75 ft / 262,47 ft x 24,61 ft x 7,55 ft (normal load)
   81,00 m / 80,00 m x 7,50 m  x 2,30 m

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 93 lbs / 42 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10.357 shp / 7.726 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 3.700nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 170 tons

Complement:
   61 - 80

Cost:
   £0,069 million / $0,275 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 12 tons, 1,9%
   Machinery: 295 tons, 47,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 179 tons, 29,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 114 tons, 18,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 18 tons, 2,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     209 lbs / 95 Kg = 5,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39
   Metacentric height 1,1 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 9,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,443
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16,20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   11,35 ft / 3,46 m
      - Mid (50%):      10,50 ft / 3,20 m (10,17 ft / 3,10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,19 ft / 3,41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81,8%
   Waterplane Area: 4.096 Square feet or 381 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,86
      - Overall: 0,57
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc weight
8 tons torpedo and tubes
5 tons very small marconi
3 ton crew comfort messures (Insulation, heating and ventilation/cooling of the messroom)

[Tanthalas]

now that i actualy like somewhat

[Korpen]

Currently France has only 1 source of oil, and that is the CSA. 

Now, even if I build 50 of these TBD's the amount of fuel oil I need on year base is aboutish 50000 tons.
In the worst case France can make that from hydrolizing coal.(Fisher-Trops)

Unlike toady, most oil production was not in the hands on state-owned companies back then.
So in most oil producing countries, unless the state expressly prohibits petroleum sales to a specific country, France is free to buy oil from them, just as is pretty much everyone else, Mr Deterding do not judge...

[maddox]

What other source does France has?


The Netherlands?  Nope
Austria/Hungaria.  Nope
Orange Republic- midde east, nope.

what else?

[Korpen]

What other source does France has?


The Netherlands?  Nope
Austria/Hungaria.  Nope
Orange Republic- midde east, nope.

what else?

The Netherleands sell on the open market, like i said Mr Deterding do not judge.
And you did forget one of the largest producers, Russia.

Austria and Orange, well their production is so miniscule that is can understand that they do not export much, as it seems unlikely that it will cover even the most basic needs of their own.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Yes, Austria exports little or none.
Production is c.10M barrels (or was that tonnes again?)
Borys

[maddox]

A barrel is 158,9873L

That means Austria Hungaria has a production of 10 000 000*158,9873L/.850= 1870438.823 tonnes a year.

So with the French plans to build a Oil fired fleet of TBD's, an import of 50000 tons represents 2.67% of the Habsburg production.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
So it is 10M tonnes, c. 1,5M barrels.
Either way 50,000 tonnes is nothing.
Borys

[Blooded]

Hello,

Not sure where your oil production stats come from but here is a great site for RL economic info.

http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govinfo/collections/league/stat.html#1926

Information was gathered by the League of Nations. goto 1926 Production Info.
On page 47 they have most of the world oil production( in millions of barrels).

If you need to know how much iron, wheat, rice you would be producing in RL its in there. Unfortunately it appears 1913 is the earliest data with some 1909-1913 info.

BTW Oil weights are tough to standardize.
American Petroleum Institute(US Barrels):
Crude Oil: metric ton equals 7.33 Barrels
Gasoline: metric ton equals 8.51 Barrels
Residual fuels: metric ton equals 6.66 Barrels
Distillate Fuels: metric ton equals 7.25 Barrels
Sythetics: metric ton equals 8.30 Barrels

(info from Oil and War -morrow pub.  excellent book i highly recommend-ww2 related)
Also all crude is not equal so the above is just a guideline.