Italian Escort Project

[Tanthalas]

a DD for long range escort of the battle fleet

Italia DDE 1909, Italia Escort Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,047 t standard; 1,269 t normal; 1,447 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   329.33 ft / 324.80 ft x 32.48 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
   100.38 m / 99.00 m x 9.90 m  x 3.50 m

Armament:
      3 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (2 mounts), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 242 lbs / 110 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,196 shp / 10,590 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 400 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   106 - 138

Cost:
   £0.140 million / $0.559 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 30 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 568 tons, 44.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 351 tons, 27.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 269 tons, 21.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     471 lbs / 213 Kg = 7.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.93

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.367
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.16 ft / 4.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 166.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,408 Square feet or 595 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 134 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.49
      - Longitudinal: 1.99
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I believe it needs some tweaking.
"Cross sectional" hull strenght is 0,49, and you seem to have forgotten a mount for the 5 inchers.
It is a Big Unarmoured Target - the freeboard is more or less equal to my 4000 cruisers.
Borys

[Tanthalas]

she realy is just a modified twin to my 1908 form 1K ton with emphisis on range and a reduced speed, it is basicly part of the escort groups i plan to lay down.  Each would consist of 3 of my 28 knot cruisers and 6 of these.  they would be tasked either with escorting 2 of my BBs or 2 of my 10 inch cruisers  or a pair of the 10" cruisers could also be tasked to the escort group with 2 BBs.  Freeboard could be lowerd, however wierd things start to happen when you do that.  here is the 17' foreward freeboard version.

Italia DDE 1909, Italia Escort Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,047 t standard; 1,269 t normal; 1,447 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   328.80 ft / 324.80 ft x 32.48 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
   100.22 m / 99.00 m x 9.90 m  x 3.50 m

Armament:
      3 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 242 lbs / 110 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,196 shp / 10,590 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 400 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   106 - 138

Cost:
   £0.140 million / $0.559 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 30 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 568 tons, 44.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 351 tons, 27.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 269 tons, 21.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     475 lbs / 216 Kg = 7.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.60
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 79 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.367
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 166.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,408 Square feet or 595 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 74 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 139 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.77
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[P3D]

Range is good, speed is slow, only a bit overarmed. Should not be slower than those cruisers you mention.
Hull depth is about 4'(-5') larger than on historical destroyers, that's true, but we decided not to mind unrealistic destroyer designs, so it is just as acceptable as those - after tweaking the two mistakes Borys brought up.

[Tanthalas]

hehehe just tweeked them =P i could proly pull another knot out of her, let me try

[Tanthalas]

28 knot version



Italia DDE 1909, Italia Escort Destroyer laid down 1909

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,046 t standard; 1,248 t normal; 1,410 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   328.80 ft / 324.80 ft x 32.48 ft x 11.48 ft (normal load)
   100.22 m / 99.00 m x 9.90 m  x 3.50 m

Armament:
      3 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 242 lbs / 110 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,236 shp / 12,112 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 364 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   104 - 136

Cost:
   £0.143 million / $0.571 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 30 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 11 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 588 tons, 47.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 331 tons, 26.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 248 tons, 19.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     403 lbs / 183 Kg = 6.4 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.61
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.361
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.58 ft / 3.83 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,403 Square feet or 595 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 139 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.44
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

lost a little seekeaping and some range but still a fairly balanced ship imo

[Ithekro]

Not enough funnels.  ;D

[Tanthalas]

Not enough funnels.  ;D

LOL Plenty of Funnels ;D , id have none if i thought i could get away with it...

[P3D]

Then move one of the funnels aft, with the current configuration some of the boilers won't have an exhaust (or why destroyers had many funnels).

[Ithekro]

Coal burner...needs more funnels (if this was an oil fired destroyer you'd likely have enough funnels).