Vache killer - Habsburg Panzerkreuzer 1910

[The Rock Doctor]

I had the thought; increasing BC at the expense of draught probably wouldn't distort the overall design too badly.

[Borys]

Le Inspiration :)
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=864.msg17631#msg17631

I myself dunno about the BC ...

Borys

[Walter]

Yes, it is important to kill that evil cow. ;D

Higher BC, lower draught...

Cow Killer, Habsburg Panzerkreuzer laid down 1911

Displacement:
   15,515 t light; 16,376 t standard; 17,801 t normal; 18,941 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   179.83 m / 179.83 m x 24.38 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all aft
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
      4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7,808 lbs / 3,542 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   330.00 ft / 100.58 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   330.00 ft / 100.58 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 86% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   10.0" / 254 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,090 shp / 35,875 Kw = 25.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,565 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   769 - 1,001

Cost:
   £1.681 million / $6.723 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,000 tons, 5.6%
   Armour: 5,103 tons, 28.7%
      - Belts: 2,351 tons, 13.2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
      - Armament: 1,386 tons, 7.8%
      - Armour Deck: 1,219 tons, 6.8%
      - Conning Tower: 147 tons, 0.8%
   Machinery: 2,126 tons, 11.9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,987 tons, 39.2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,286 tons, 12.8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,056 lbs / 9,097 Kg = 23.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.3 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (15%):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (20%):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.50 ft / 4.72 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Stern:      15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.30 ft / 5.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.8%
   Waterplane Area: 32,940 Square feet or 3,060 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 739 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Walter - I have a feeling your ship is better than mine :)

Borys

[Walter]

Well, I think that if you had gone for the higher BC, lowered the draught and then tweaked the design, you might have ended up with something that would almost be like this one.

[Ithekro]

It could always be based on a ACM types like Hawaii was.  All turrets on the wings.

[Sachmle]

Very nice design.  Have two statements

1. Regarding the "overshot" hit on the B or C turret.  Shot with correct range/angle to hit the over side of the turret would most likely hit the deck at an angle which would cause skip and not penetrate to the barbette.

2. With the obvious effects of TB attacks on capital ships during the Pacific war it may be worthwhile to install a torp belt.  2.5 torp not bad, but she's a little expensive to loose to a squad of TBs, no?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
1 - The armoured deck is one deck lower than the weather deck. Would the teak be enough to deflect?

2 - I don't believe in TB below 20,000 tonnes. And TB would cause major changes, like thinning out the MB:


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1911

Displacement:
   15 716 t light; 16 583 t standard; 18 007 t normal; 19 147 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590,00 ft / 590,00 ft x 81,00 ft x 28,00 ft (normal load)
   179,83 m / 179,83 m x 24,69 m  x 8,53 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 850,00lbs / 385,55kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 850,00lbs / 385,55kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100,00lbs / 45,36kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 7 827 lbs / 3 550 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   430,00 ft / 131,06 m   12,00 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   3,00" / 76 mm   130,00 ft / 39,62 m   10,00 ft / 3,05 m
     30,00 ft / 9,14 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4,00" / 102 mm   330,00 ft / 100,58 m   9,00 ft / 2,74 m
     Main Belt covers 112% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,00" / 25 mm   430,00 ft / 131,06 m   40,00 ft / 12,19 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   5,00" / 127 mm      8,00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   10,0" / 254 mm   5,00" / 127 mm      7,00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   4,00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46 869 shp / 34 964 Kw = 25,00 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 565 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   776 - 1 010

Cost:
   £1,682 million / $6,728 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 002 tons, 5,6%
   Armour: 5 147 tons, 28,6%
      - Belts: 1 962 tons, 10,9%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 636 tons, 3,5%
      - Armament: 1 252 tons, 7,0%
      - Armour Deck: 1 148 tons, 6,4%
      - Conning Tower: 148 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 2 072 tons, 11,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 195 tons, 40,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 291 tons, 12,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19 793 lbs / 8 978 Kg = 22,9 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 3,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 4,6 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,471
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,28 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28,00 ft / 8,53 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   23,00 ft / 7,01 m (15,00 ft / 4,57 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Stern:      15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,00 ft / 5,18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,2%
   Waterplane Area: 31 029 Square feet or 2 883 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 159 lbs/sq ft or 774 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,51
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

1. No teak not deflect. I 'ass-u-me-d' armor deck was backing for top deck, not 1 deck lower

2. Could blister so less internal space taken by torp belt. Corse probably cost speed or atleast need more shp.