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[The Rock Doctor]

Interesting seeing how different people are approaching the requirements.

I like the Confederate submission's freeboard.  She'll handle those deep southern seas quite well.

[Carthaginian]

Interesting seeing how different people are approaching the requirements.

I like the Confederate submission's freeboard.  She'll handle those deep southern seas quite well.

Aye, but the Colombian designs will be more 'crew-friendly' with the additional space and a bit more versatile with their near-excessive weight reserve. Definitely ships made with a long service life in mind.


Oh, as a note, if my design were built with imported 1909 engines, she'd top out at over 26 knots.

[Sachmle]

Decided to open this up a little more and explain the expected duty as it may help close the gap between the extremes of the designs. For clarification purposes, I'm looking for someone to design and build, as my limited slip space and BP will be occupied with refitting my PCs which are ~18 y/o and finishing my DD flotillas. Willing to compensate.

Spec are as follows:

Able to fit in a type 1 DD
Maximum speed >=22kts w/10kts cruising speed & >=8000nm range
All coal fired boilers, even number of shafts only (NUS engineers believe the odd
shaft extending from the keel weakens the hull)
MB 6" min would prefer 6 single but am willing to settle on this point
SB of 3" or 4" QF any layout
18" TT above water only, no reload
Armoured to withstand own fire or better
Large Marconi
Stability>= 1.15, steadiness>= 70%, seakeeping>= 1.20
Accomodation & workspace >= average

Purpose:
1.Fast fleet scout and recon
2.TB & DD picket for AC/BB protection
Not intended to go head to head with anything larger than a CL, and will usually be in pairs unless on mission #1

[Tanthalas]

Italia feels it is not possible to build a reputable design to these requirements.  (Aka 393 ft is just too short I went that route myself and gave up.  You end up with an under armed, under powered, under armored ship) Think smaller Italia can not build this ship, we abandoned our colonial cruisers because they were dead impractical.


(OOC) who are your potential enemies, what are they fielding, these are the questions you need to ask yourself.  Unlike some of us you don't have a global Empire you have to protect, so plan accordingly.  Me for example I have to protect everything from the glass smooth Med to the stormy southern Atlantic to the great rift (still not sure what the ocean is like there im assuming the worst).  I could even find myself rounding the horn of Africa to protect my Atlantic colonies.  Have you considered ordering 1kton destroyers from someone?  This would be a decent solution to what you want actually other than they have limited range.  On a 393 foot hull you just can't build a truly great ship, there is a whole thread somewhere of me trying to =P

[Tanthalas]

Well since I can't sleep I dug around and found my final on the colonial cruiser I tried to build.  Here it is I decided it was not worth building but maybe you could do something with her actually matches your requirements almost to the letter.

Italia X-CC, Italia Colonial Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   4,531 t light; 4,746 t standard; 5,440 t normal; 5,995 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.05 ft / 390.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   119.80 m / 118.87 m x 15.24 m  x 4.88 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (3x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,404 lbs / 637 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   196.56 ft / 59.91 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   193.42 ft / 58.95 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   196.56 ft / 59.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,506 shp / 12,314 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,249 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   316 - 411

Cost:
   £0.422 million / $1.686 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 176 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 1,604 tons, 29.5 %
      - Belts: 960 tons, 17.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 72 tons, 1.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 533 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 825 tons, 15.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,826 tons, 33.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 909 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,124 lbs / 3,685 Kg = 75.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 3.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.97 ft / 4.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,399 Square feet or 1,338 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 411 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Some mighty fine designs here.

Borys

[maddox]

An enlarged Fleurus II, with the most modern equipment on board, even with light armor, 6 of the best and most used French naval guns, the famous 140mm mount and hoist. With the same punch as other countries 6" monstrocities.
An Italian imported Marconi.
Rock solid in the worst weather, all the wished for parameters .
4 18" Torpedo tubes, 3 70mm QF guns and for added fun and anti personel, 2 UKN/French Hotchkiss 25mm machineguns
The only problem with the limitation on size and budget is the very light, but extensive armor for a ship her size.

NUS Proposal SIII, France sloop laid down 1909

Displacement:
   2.205 t light; 2.300 t standard; 2.769 t normal; 3.143 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 42,65 ft x 12,80 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 13,00 m  x 3,90 m

Armament:
      6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      3 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 588 lbs / 267 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm   255,91 ft / 78,00 m   7,84 ft / 2,39 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14.044 shp / 10.477 Kw = 24,00 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 843 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   190 - 248

Cost:
   £0,232 million / $0,926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 67 tons, 2,4%
   Armour: 301 tons, 10,9%
      - Belts: 84 tons, 3,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0,7%
      - Armour Deck: 198 tons, 7,2%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 702 tons, 25,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.100 tons, 39,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 564 tons, 20,4%
   Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3.660 lbs / 1.660 Kg = 43,7 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,39
   Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 11,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,451
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Stern:      12,04 ft / 3,67 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,94 ft / 3,95 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116,2%
   Waterplane Area: 10.720 Square feet or 996 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 66 lbs/sq ft or 325 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,36
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Other option is the designed successor for the Quebec Class light flottilia leader. This has all what is wished for, only with a heavier armament, more than adequate armor, respectable, but for France fast speed, better cruising speed that asked for. And a shitload of shells for the heavy guns.

2 times bigger after all.

NUS CL IIX, France Leader laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   3.980 t light; 4.171 t standard; 5.163 t normal; 5.957 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   384,00 ft / 380,00 ft x 43,00 ft x 20,00 ft (normal load)
   117,04 m / 115,82 m x 13,11 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns in single mounts, 137,06lbs / 62,17kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      10 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
      2 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1910 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 928 lbs / 421 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   247,01 ft / 75,29 m   7,28 ft / 2,22 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   3,00" / 76 mm   247,01 ft / 75,29 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   3,00" / 76 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23.840 shp / 17.785 Kw = 24,50 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.786 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   303 - 395

Cost:
   £0,404 million / $1,615 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 116 tons, 2,2%
   Armour: 1.181 tons, 22,9%
      - Belts: 630 tons, 12,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 96 tons, 1,9%
      - Armour Deck: 423 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1.192 tons, 23,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.441 tons, 27,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.183 tons, 22,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.732 lbs / 2.600 Kg = 41,8 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
   Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 12,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0,553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,84 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4,00 ft / 1,22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   15,00 ft / 4,57 m
      - Mid (50%):      15,00 ft / 4,57 m (13,65 ft / 4,16 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   15,00 ft / 4,57 m (13,65 ft / 4,16 m before break)
      - Stern:      13,65 ft / 4,16 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,23 ft / 4,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 89,9%
   Waterplane Area: 11.436 Square feet or 1.062 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 71 lbs/sq ft or 345 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,10
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I wonder if the ersatz Quebec could be built with 8x5,5" guns?

And a question to the UNA - is it worth to refit 18 year old PCs? Scrap'em better, no?
Borys

[Tanthalas]

Ahoj!
I wonder if the ersatz Quebec could be built with 8x5,5" guns?

And a question to the UNA - is it worth to refit 18 year old PCs? Scrap'em better, no?
Borys

depends on how heavy a refit is it a coat of paint and call it good, or is it a full on rebuild?

I did refits on my 1891 BBs and SCs, in 1905,  The BBs got the full treatment, the SCs got coat of paint and call it good.

[maddox]

That is what I would do with a new Quebec.   The  140mm QF's with heavy shells are my favorite.

One version that failed the French criteria.  The crews would be less that pleased with the comfort on these vessels.

NUS CL IIX, France Leader laid down 1910 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   3.848 t light; 4.050 t standard; 5.163 t normal; 6.054 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   384,00 ft / 380,00 ft x 43,00 ft x 20,00 ft (normal load)
   117,04 m / 115,82 m x 13,11 m  x 6,10 m

Armament:
     2 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
     3 - 2,76" / 70,0 mm guns in single mounts, 10,47lbs / 4,75kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0,98" / 25,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,48lbs / 0,22kg shells, 1910 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 774 lbs / 351 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   247,01 ft / 75,29 m   7,28 ft / 2,22 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2,00" / 51 mm   247,01 ft / 75,29 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      1,00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1,00" / 25 mm   1,00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2,00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5,00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23.840 shp / 17.785 Kw = 24,50 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2.004 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   303 - 395

Cost:
   £0,375 million / $1,502 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 88 tons, 1,7%
   Armour: 1.029 tons, 19,9%
      - Belts: 471 tons, 9,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 103 tons, 2,0%
      - Armour Deck: 423 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,6%
   Machinery: 1.192 tons, 23,1%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1.490 tons, 28,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.315 tons, 25,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.978 lbs / 2.712 Kg = 71,4 x 5,5 " / 140 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
   Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 12,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,553
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,84 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4,00 ft / 1,22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,00 ft / 7,62 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
      - Mid (50%):      14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,65 ft / 4,16 m
      - Stern:      13,65 ft / 4,16 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,31 ft / 4,67 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 87,5%
   Waterplane Area: 11.436 Square feet or 1.062 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,11
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

LOL that reminds me I have to post that somewhere one criteria Italians use is every man must have his own bunk in a dedicated berthing compartment ^.^

[maddox]

I would rather refer to the Italian BB that went to Russia after WW II.
No insulation, no serious kitchen, no heating except steam direct from the boilers. No range comparable to other BB's.

http://www.bobhenneman.info/soviet.htm

[Tanthalas]

Gah i know what ship your talking about... I almost built it already >< I add around 250 tons of just plain stuff to my ships, i figure thats berthing, insulation, flag country stuff like that

[maddox]

You have to admit, if you're operating  purely in the Med, not farther away than a few days sailing from the more comfortable barracks, it's an elegant solution.  More fans for circulating air , or even a real aircooler instalation are a better use of the misc weight then.


I'm handicapped in that respect, French ships are real "go everyweres" and even the smallest ships I design will get some misc weight for crew comfort. Even if only a ceiling fan for every bunk and at least "adequate space" for everybody.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
They can snuggle up for warmth and camaradie ...
Borys