An Offer

[nikitol]

The Government of the Velike Kniazistvo Ukrainske is willing to purchase
a dreadnought.

One of the modern projects, already built, in service.
Draught no more than 8 meters, lenght no more than 170 meters.
Armament no less than 6x280.
Price is the subject of discussion.

Would like the ship to be delivered to Liepa sea port late 1908 or H1 1909.

[Borys]

Daragoy shurin (is that "dear brother in law"?) , I can sell SMS Frankreich - rebuilt in 1902/1903, which means she was more or less built from scratch, with 3x2x275mm.
Delivery - if she doesn't get sunk in the Pacific War - 1HY1909.
Payment - check PM.

ADDED LATER:
To play you must post HY reports. As you remember, your 1906 reports need some corrections. I can help with that, and with the ones for 1907 and 1908.

Borys

[nikitol]

I remember. and i am working on them :)

[olekit]

HMMM... What for the Ukraine needs a modern dreadnought???.... Maybe to train Zaporojskiye Kazaki how to get more fish??? Hmmm...

[Ithekro]

To keep the Turks, Romanians, and Austrians honest?

Or is this for the Baltic Fleet?

[P3D]

HMMM... What for the Ukraine needs a modern dreadnought???

Honestly, I have no idea. ???

Selling dreadnought has a low chance. Tegethoff is on the weak side. And the first Ukraininan DN would be comissioned in 1909.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
This one is for the Baltic Fleet. The town given in the notice is probably better known to you as Libau.
I understand that Liepa is an unknown to me previously form of Liepava.

Borys

[P3D]

Ah, missed that.

[ledeper]

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908

Displacement:
   22.148 t light; 23.286 t standard; 25.070 t normal; 26.497 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   562,32 ft / 557,74 ft x 100,07 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
   171,40 m / 170,00 m x 30,50 m  x 8,00 m

Armament:
      9 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (3x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7.384 lbs / 3.349 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Ends:   3,94" / 100 mm   195,18 ft / 59,49 m   12,01 ft / 3,66 m
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      0,02" / 1 mm   362,53 ft / 110,50 m   24,74 ft / 7,54 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11,8" / 300 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,97" / 50 mm      3,94" / 100 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.224 shp / 34.483 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 3.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.210 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   996 - 1.295

Cost:
   £1,910 million / $7,640 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 923 tons, 3,7 %
   Armour: 6.827 tons, 27,2 %
      - Belts: 3.135 tons, 12,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 7 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 1.349 tons, 5,4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.263 tons, 9,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 2.568 tons, 10,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.531 tons, 46,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.922 tons, 11,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39.693 lbs / 18.005 Kg = 59,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 5,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,31
   Metacentric height 8,1 ft / 2,5 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,599
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,98 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,29 ft / 5,27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 40.781 Square feet or 3.789 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 218 lbs/sq ft or 1.065 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,40
      - Longitudinal: 2,00
      - Overall: 1,45
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
offer from the Baltic Confederation

[maddox]

France can offer one of the 2 almost ready Valeurs.

But, would the pricetag be fair?

[Ithekro]

You appear to have a 1mm thick torpedo bulkhead.  Why would one armor a ship with a tissue paper thick (okay slightly thick) piece of steel?

Aside from that the vessel is likely fine.  Where do you plan to operate it and who is its logical opponent?

[Sachmle]

Also may want to trade some stability for steadiness and seakeeping.

[P3D]

I managed 8x13.5", better armored, and even a bit faster on similar tonnage. Although without superfiring (you need 24-25000t for a 23kts ship and superfiring 13.5"s to be stable).

A bit increase of draught might help.