Orange Naval Infrastructure

[P3D]

In Navalism 2, creating Orange I could not spend my starting points and I invested all of it into naval infrastructure (I was not alone in this regard). I want to cut it to a justifiable size, but first I'd like to hear suggestions about it.
The large slips and docks are there for liners.
The main naval base should be Durban not Kaapstad, so the latter should be cut down. The base on Prince Edwards Island would also be relegated to the status of coaling station.

Kaapstad Harbor Level 5, Upkeep limit 500,000t
S4 S3 S2 S0
D4 D2 D2 D1 D0

Durban Harbor level 5, capacity 500,000t
S4 S3 S1 S0
D4 D1

Porth Elizabeth 3, capacity 200,00t
S3 S3 S1
D3 D0

Oos-London 2, capacity 120,000t
S2 S0 S0
D2 D0

Port Nolloth 1, capacity 40,000t
D1

Prince Edwards Islands 1, capacity 40,000t
D1

These ports are later acquisitions:

Luanda 1, capacity 40,000t
S0 D0

Beira 1, capacity 40.000t
D0

Walvisbaai 0, capacity 5000t

[Carthaginian]

Can we all restructure?
If so, what are the rules/regulations?
I have a lot of East Coast ports, and would like to consolidate a bit as the equipment occasionally don't match the capabilities.

[P3D]

I'd say yes (if it would not mean an increase in capabilities).

One of the changes that would happen is to introduce Civilian Harbors.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
OK - reshuffle all you want, as long as the total stays the same, and is reasonably grounded in reality.
Civilian Harbours - no thanks.
Borys

[Carthaginian]

I'd say yes (if it would not mean an increase in capabilities).

One of the changes that would happen is to introduce Civilian Harbors.

Meh... I'm with Borys- not sure I like civilian harbors.
And by 'capabilities not increasing', do you mean I can't support more tonnage than I already can, or that I can't combine to get a bigger base size (i.e.) several Class 0 bases into a single Class I?

[Korpen]

Hm, then i might be allowed to do some shifting of mine infrastructure as well?
What i had in mind is extremely minor thing, changing place of Rotterdam and Amsterdam, and moving the Slips in Den Helder to Vlissingen, this mainly for flavour, pretty much all real Dutch warships were built in either Vlissingen or Rotterdam (and a few in Amsterdam), so it feels better to concentrate the shipyards to those two cities.

[Borys]

And by 'capabilities not increasing', do you mean I can't support more tonnage than I already can, or that I can't combine to get a bigger base size (i.e.) several Class 0 bases into a single Class I?

What I meant to say was that you can only shuffle around what you already have, i.e. you use the existing numbers and grades of ports, and the existing numbers and grades of slips/dry docks.
Of course, this should be done in Good Faith and Spirit.

To avoid missunderstanding of intent the belligerents in the Pacific War can reshuffle after the war is over.

In principle I am against such reshufles. But "let him who be without sin cast the first stone" - after taking over the Habsburgs I moved around some bases, and reshufled slips and DDs between them, i.e. setting up Fiume as a TB/cruiser building yard. Big difference - a reshuffle of infrastructure on 200 miles of the Dalmatian coast :)
And I put more than I should into Pola - I will finally have to upggrade it to Type 3

So Den Helder slips moved to Vlissingen - OK. (that's 100 miles distance?)

In the Orange example - I'd be OK with a reshulffle of the original yards, leaving Luanda and Beira out of it.

For the CSA - I'd condone a reshuffle of the continental bases and infrastructure.

But let us keep such geographical changes to a one-per-lifetime event for a country. The Habsburgs are done already - they did it once and can never do it again, they must build. Baltikum - also.

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Where would I find the original Orange infrastructure for comparison?

[Borys]

It was quoted by P3D in his post:

Kaapstad Harbor Level 5, Upkeep limit 500,000t
S4 S3 S2 S0
D4 D2 D2 D1 D0

Durban Harbor level 5, capacity 500,000t
S4 S3 S1 S0
D4 D1

Porth Elizabeth 3, capacity 200,00t
S3 S3 S1
D3 D0

Oos-London 2, capacity 120,000t
S2 S0 S0
D2 D0

Port Nolloth 1, capacity 40,000t
D1

Prince Edwards Islands 1, capacity 40,000t
D1

These ports are later acquisitions:[/color]

Luanda 1, capacity 40,000t
S0 D0

Beira 1, capacity 40.000t
D0

Walvisbaai 0, capacity 5000t

[The Rock Doctor]

My bad - I thought that was his proposed revision.

I don't think I have any infrastructure to shuffle if there's to be no change in size/quantity.  If it was a matter of retaining overall point totals, I'd probably do some re-jigging of the two Jamaican ports, but I expect I'll just have to spend the BP to get what I want.

[Borys]

Shuffles are a delciate business - Pola to Fiume, Den Helder to Vlissingen - OK. These as within stone's throw of one another.
Hampton Roads to the Pacific Coast - IMO no.
But where to draw the line? Hampton roads to Miami OK, to Mobile bad? Or to Mobile good, to Corpus Christi bad?
Prince Edwards Island degraded to Type 0, and to compensate Type 0 set up at Luderitz?

I fully understand Carthaginian's wish to reshuffle, as it is only now that he grasps various nuances of the game, and the ports had nt been setup by him to begin with. But the reshuffles could - note the qualifier - could turn out to be a can of worms and a good occasion for a row. As if the hissed threats at Mithlond were not enough.
:)

Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Oh yes, it's delicate.

All I have in mind is to go from Type 2 ports at Cromwell and Montego Bay to a Type 3 at Cromwell and a Type 1 at Montego.  I'd then shuffle the S2 and D2 at Montego over to Cromwell.  The points total, and the slip/dock totals, remain constant. 

The end result is that the distribution of infrastructure on Jamaica is more "in sync" with use:  Cromwell's the HQ for the Caribbean Fleet, and Montego's remnants are there to support smaller craft ops in the Windward Passage.

If that's not cool with the mods and my neighbours, no biggie.  I'll just spend a couple BP to create more capability.

[Carthaginian]

And I also understand the can of worms it could open.

My situations are:
1.) I have Pensacola, which is basically a boneyard. It's a Type 2 port with a single type 2 slip; that's a big mis-match. A boneyard would have a drydock if it has anything, to facilitate mobilization and demobilization of ships coming into and out of reserve. I have a Type 2 drydock at Key West that would be far more in keeping with the spirit/purpose of a fleet reserve base, but isn't really anything necessary at a destroyer base. I also have a Type 2 drydock in Galveston, but really nothing else but a big port facility.

I want to shift the Type 2 slip from P-cola to Galveston, and the Type 2 drydocks from Key West & Galveston to P-cola. Now, I have a clear-cut mission at all the various bases: Galveston- construction; Key West- construction; Pensacola- maintenance. All the equipment would stay within the same command, and all the capabilities would remain the same... it would just be arranged more logically.

2.) In La Paz, a similar reserve/maintenance post, I have a single Type 0 slip... again, this is very out of place for a reserve center. It would be more fitting at a construction base, like Santa Monica... which conveniently has a Type 0 drydock that I could swap out to make the same kind of change as was made in the Gulf. Now, both bases have the same logical order to their facilities: Santa Monica- construction; La Paz- maintenance.

3.) Charleston has Type 3 drydocks, but is a Type 2 port. Only a couple of hundred miles to the south is Savannah, which is a Type 2 port with only about half it's maximum facilities. Were it judged to be allowable, I'd opt to create a single, large Type 3 port in Charleston or Savannah (unsure which harbor would be better/larger realisitcally) and completely do away with the other. This would allow my facilities to match up, and would create one major fleet base in the process.

4.) Similar to above, I would like to be able to combine Tampa and P-cola into one Type 3 base, sending the Type 2 slip from Tampa to New Orleans, which would help to fill out the facilities there.



That's the changes that I'd like to make. The last two are major changes, but the first two only move equipment- they don't change capabilities. I think that all of them are doable, but I may be wrong. I'd say that Rock and Blooded would have the biggest input on my doing this- they would be the most affected by any fleet rearrangements. All of these changes would make my layout more logical, would consolidate forces into more manageable groups, and would just look better.

[P3D]

As someone else noted, there's not much reason for so many naval bases bordering the Florida marshes.

No one has any other suggestions about Orange?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
And what exactly do you want to do?
Downgrade Edwards Island, and move part of Kaapstadt infrastructure to Durban?
Borys