Baltic Confedration Fleet Cruisers

Started by ledeper, October 27, 2007, 07:23:44 AM

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ledeper

October 27, 2007, 07:23:44 AM
City Class, Baltic Confederation Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   9.483 t light; 9.939 t standard; 12.498 t normal; 14.546 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   569,86 ft / 557,74 ft x 62,34 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
   173,69 m / 170,00 m x 19,00 m  x 6,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 8,00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256,00lbs / 116,12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (5x2 guns), 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2.388 lbs / 1.083 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,00" / 152 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      4,00" / 102 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      2,00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8,00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 54.897 shp / 40.953 Kw = 27,25 kts
   Range 6.500nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.606 tons

Complement:
   590 - 768

Cost:
   £0,932 million / $3,728 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 298 tons, 2,4 %
   Armour: 2.052 tons, 16,4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 561 tons, 4,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.398 tons, 11,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 93 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2.495 tons, 20,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.387 tons, 35,1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.016 tons, 24,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15.685 lbs / 7.115 Kg = 61,3 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 3,6 ft / 1,1 m
   Roll period: 13,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,95 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,98 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Stern:      16,54 ft / 5,04 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,29 ft / 5,27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 25.192 Square feet or 2.340 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 563 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,06
      - Longitudinal: 1,25
      - Overall: 1,08
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Will be named after Confederation major cities

maddox

#1
October 27, 2007, 07:34:04 AM
Why do I see a WW II Prinz Eugen?

Borys

#2
October 27, 2007, 08:02:25 AM
Ahoj!
It is a "tin clad" - the early treaty cruisers did not have armour.

Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

maddox

#3
October 27, 2007, 08:17:52 AM
Below 80'  no existing TB protection sceme worked.  Just taking up space and weight for nothing.

Ithekro

#4
October 27, 2007, 11:28:51 AM
This is a large protected cruiser as he has only deck armor.  The cruising speed is excessive for the time period.  10-12 knots seems more common.

Tanthalas

#5
October 27, 2007, 12:08:26 PM
honestly as I see it this ship has no purpose.  You could do the same job with somthing ALOT smaller.
"He either fears his fate too much,
Or his desserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch,
To win or lose it all!"

James Graham, 5th Earl of Montrose
1612 to 1650
Royalist General during the English Civil War

Borys

#6
October 27, 2007, 12:54:13 PM
Ahoj!
You see, Ledeper, we try to more or less keep to the times. Some advances above and beyond the epoch are unavoidable. Nonethless, over 10knot cruising speed is a thing of the late 20s and 30s, when fleets switched to oil, and could keep up such speeds.
This site has quite many examples of ships representative for the period:
http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/
Borys
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

ledeper

#7
October 27, 2007, 02:10:27 PM
The idea is that at least one of these cruisers is to be stationed on Iceland for patrol and survey tasks around Iceland an Greenlandish waters,thus the big size for cooping with the harsh conditions in the North Atlantic.

P3D

#8
October 27, 2007, 02:36:43 PM
3000t should be big enough for the harsh North Atlantic conditions.

And first you should secure some oil supplies. UNK is out of the question because of bad blood. Galizian production is already accounted for. Romania is a bit far away but available if you are friendly with the Ukrainians. Russia is not very friendly. Javan production is consumed in South East Asia. The confederates are supplying Rohan, the Swiss, the DKB, the rest of South America and Gran Columbia (for a while). Middle East oil other than Persia is more or less unavailable in the time period.
The first purpose of a warship is to remain afloat. Anon.
Below 40 degrees, there is no law. Below 50 degrees, there is no God. sailor's maxim on weather in the Southern seas

Borys

#9
October 27, 2007, 02:57:02 PM
Ahoj!
If you need something for the Cod Wars, maybe something along these lines:

SMS Erdely, Habsburg Awizo laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   2 656 t light; 2 752 t standard; 3 241 t normal; 3 632 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330,35 ft / 330,00 ft x 40,00 ft x 13,00 ft (normal load)
   100,69 m / 100,58 m x 12,19 m  x 3,96 m

Armament:
      2 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns in single mounts, 200,00lbs / 90,72kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      4 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
they are not superfiring, but they are on the long forecastle
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 240 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   2 - 14,0" / 355,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   250,00 ft / 76,20 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 117% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,00" / 25 mm         -         1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10 769 ihp / 8 034 Kw = 21,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 880 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   214 - 279

Cost:
   £0,267 million / $1,067 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 69 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 342 tons, 10,6%
      - Belts: 333 tons, 10,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 10 tons, 0,3%
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
   Machinery: 828 tons, 25,6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 266 tons, 39,1%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 585 tons, 18,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 4,6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3 557 lbs / 1 613 Kg = 16,9 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,20
   Metacentric height 1,8 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 12,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 88 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,76

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,661
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5,00 ft / -1,52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20,12 ft / 6,13 m
      - Forecastle (43%):   20,00 ft / 6,10 m (13,00 ft / 3,96 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      13,00 ft / 3,96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   13,00 ft / 3,96 m
      - Stern:      13,00 ft / 3,96 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,03 ft / 4,89 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112,7%
   Waterplane Area: 10 214 Square feet or 949 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 73 lbs/sq ft or 356 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,08
      - Longitudinal: 3,02
      - Overall: 1,20
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
NEDS - Not Enough Deck Space for all those guns and torpedos;
Bambi must DIE!

ledeper

#10
October 27, 2007, 02:58:24 PM
City Class,  Baltic Confederation  Fleet Cruiser  laid down 1908

Displacement:
   10.118 t light; 10.557 t standard; 11.653 t normal; 12.530 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   568,45 ft / 557,74 ft x 63,98 ft x 21,33 ft (normal load)
   173,26 m / 170,00 m x 19,50 m  x 6,50 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,99" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 255,24lbs / 115,78kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 4,02" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,38lbs / 14,69kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      10 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 2.385 lbs / 1.082 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5,50" / 140 mm   357,61 ft / 109,00 m   9,60 ft / 2,93 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,50" / 38 mm   390,42 ft / 119,00 m   19,57 ft / 5,96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5,00" / 127 mm   3,00" / 76 mm      5,00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   2,00" / 51 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 6,00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 46.224 shp / 34.483 Kw = 26,50 kts
   Range 3.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.973 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   560 - 729

Cost:
   £0,964 million / $3,856 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 298 tons, 2,6 %
   Armour: 3.175 tons, 27,2 %
      - Belts: 799 tons, 6,9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 424 tons, 3,6 %
      - Armament: 522 tons, 4,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.364 tons, 11,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 2.568 tons, 22,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.076 tons, 35,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.536 tons, 13,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14.167 lbs / 6.426 Kg = 55,5 x 8,0 " / 203 mm shells or 2,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 13,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,536
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,80 ft / 5,12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 24.578 Square feet or 2.283 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 539 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,01
      - Longitudinal: 1,15
      - Overall: 1,02
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Ithekro

#11
October 27, 2007, 03:20:46 PM
This one is more like a Washington Treaty Heavy Cruiser.  He can put out a lot of fire, but I wouldn't want to get into a slugging match with another county's modern Armored Cruiser, as they will be able to take the punishment of the 8" guns as this ages combat ranges (there is generally less deck hits until fire control allows for greater ranges).

If her purpose is to secure the northern shipping routes and fishing fleets (or be a local area flagship) she should be designed in a manner to counter UKA and perhaps French cruiser designs on some level.  You might want to be sure the accompanying light and/or scouting cruisers can keep up with this larger ship.  If you have decent coal in Iceland, than range will not be as great of a factor as long as they can all get there with a reserve in case of bad weather or ice burgs.

The torpedo bulkhead shouldn't be of use on that thin of a hull.  Your protection should be better without the bulkhead and your engine will fit better.
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