The Mithlond Conference, July 1908

[Korpen]

How can a peace treaty with New Switzerland force Siam not to seek any new parties instead of the Swiss to finish the canal?

That is a different issue, as Siam in not a party. But atm it is the swiss who are building it, on land they have said they have leased from Siam.

[Sachmle]

Should the talks have failed completely to bring about Peace, Italia was prepared to take measures to prevent the allies from continuing the war as they were.  This would have included some if not all of the following actions, closing the med to Borys ( it would have been bloody but I think I could have done it), Invading DKB holdings around mine in Africa (would have been relatively simple), Attacking DKB and Austria in South America (not sure how that would have gone honestly).

OOC:While not currently involved in this particular struggle directly the above statement caught my attention, particularly the one in bold. While NUS has no love lost with the DKB (read my history if not sure why) having war in my front yard basically would have drawn a reaction from the Congreso de la Nación and El Presidente Marinez y Garcia. Just food for thought.

[miketr]

Mike you made me quite angry the other day just a FYI, before borys locked the thread I was still trying to find a way to end this mess without a war (true wars aren't my style, I prefer Controlled Conflicts), and you basically told me to shut up and but out.  Now I know why but you all have to realize that France Views Iberia as unfriendly at best, and GC isn't much better.  I personally doubt that they would view either sitting across their lines of communication as a "Good thing" (honestly I doubt that anyone save France sitting across their SLOC would be viewed as a good thing).

OOC My reply wasn't personal, it was in character, upsetting in real life you, Korpen, Carthaginian, etc was never my objective.  As to why my ambassador responded the way he did is because Iberia viewed France as the key and wanted them to speak up.  Division of the area is a possible if not most likely solution but thats step Z and other steps needed to go before that.

[Tanthalas]

How can a peace treaty with New Switzerland force Siam not to seek any new parties instead of the Swiss to finish the canal?

I tend to agree with P3D on this, the canal was a huge hang up and it was handled, Your own allies at the time offerd to pay for your damaged port (which while the Italians found odd they did not object to).  all in all knowing that another war is inevitable it wasnt a bad treaty.  No one got Everything they wanted, i was on the verge of proposing a modified Versiles treaty honestly.  I had even writin it up when GC put their proposal forward,(honestly my limitations would have done nothing to DF but they would have looked preaty and allowed him to go on doing what he enjoys building little ships) but the GC plan was taken by some of the allies, and the NS.  So I didnt bother with it.

Should the talks have failed completely to bring about Peace, Italia was prepared to take measures to prevent the allies from continuing the war as they were.  This would have included some if not all of the following actions, closing the med to Borys ( it would have been bloody but I think I could have done it), Invading DKB holdings around mine in Africa (would have been relatively simple), Attacking DKB and Austria in South America (not sure how that would have gone honestly).

OOC:While not currently involved in this particular struggle directly the above statement caught my attention, particularly the one in bold. While NUS has no love lost with the DKB (read my history if not sure why) having war in my front yard basically would have drawn a reaction from the Congreso de la Nación and El Presidente Marinez y Garcia. Just food for thought.

these plans were largly drawn up before you enterd the sim, hence no thought was given to what a NPC nation with no military and no Navy thought =P  when you enterd i would have had to revise them slightly, but honestly not alot

Mike you made me quite angry the other day just a FYI, before borys locked the thread I was still trying to find a way to end this mess without a war (true wars aren't my style, I prefer Controlled Conflicts), and you basically told me to shut up and but out.  Now I know why but you all have to realize that France Views Iberia as unfriendly at best, and GC isn't much better.  I personally doubt that they would view either sitting across their lines of communication as a "Good thing" (honestly I doubt that anyone save France sitting across their SLOC would be viewed as a good thing).

OOC My reply wasn't personal, it was in character, upsetting in real life you, Korpen, Carthaginian, etc was never my objective.  As to why my ambassador responded the way he did is because Iberia viewed France as the key and wanted them to speak up.  Division of the area is a possible if not most likely solution but thats step Z and other steps needed to go before that.

be that as it may I have bene trying to make somthing out of this pigs ear since the whole thing started, and to get told to basicly mind my own business pissed me off a tad.  You and I are in a posistion of having to deal directly with france, we both share borders with them and realisticly even combined you and I would have 0 chance against them.  hence i have chosen to deal diplomaticly with them (Marius is still nervous as hell about them in all honesty even with the treaty of Rome) for about the milionth time Italia dosnt want war (well not this one anyway) we realy want to be left alone to develop our country and our Military along the lines we see fit.  However if france says jump we have little choice but to jump.

[Borys]

OOC
Ahoj!
My stance is identical to The Rock Doctor's - expressed in the deleted post. Call me back to the game when this is resolved. In the meantime I will limit myself to janitor duties.
Borys

[Ithekro]

OOC:
I would point out that the Dutch have been called by the chair to speak on their own behalf.

[Korpen]

Very well.
There seems to be some confusion in the translation of the instructions from Haag. So some of the delay has been due to the need of requesting further clarifications on the mandate of the legalisation. It seems the previous delegation exceeded its mandate with the proposal with the sale of the non-indirect ruled regencies, only indirect-ruled territories and sovereign vassals was within the mandate of the delegation to negotiate over. So while the previous statement is not possible to impalement in the presents conference due to these circumstances, it is however possible to undertake in separate bilateral negotiations at a future date. Due to the timeframe stipulated in the previous delegations proposal, a future date for final negotiations on the status of the region can be decided in a separate conference between the involved parties at a time not far away.

At the present the delegation support the Japanese point of view concerning the signing of interim agreements concering the hostilities between the alliance and the rons, and final status of the hostilities.

(Not included for discussion)
As for a clarification on the stance on the issue of the Swiss involvement in the Kra-canal project. That canal is as an ipso facto-act of aggression. The only real reason for a canal to be built is to allow an enemy at war (and its allies) with the Netherlands easy access between the Indian and pacific oceans. The Netherlands is a small country with possessions spread al around the world, and will always be outnumbered by local powers in Africa, Asia, America or Europe. Preventing an enemy to surround the Asian islands at sea is the only way to slow an enemy down and allow the fleet to arrive. The Kra-canal have no economic value that motivates the cost of building it, but for a country wanting to attack the NOI it is valuable, and only to such a country.

[Ithekro]

"Thank you for the clarification.  Now it seems their is a different sort of impass.  Austria and Brandenburg wish and have signed for peace with New Switzerland, but their allies in the Neatherlands and Japan do not agree with the whole of the terms set in this treaty and have not signed.  Since the war in and of itself is a conflict between the Swiss and Dutch, the war remains in motion until these delegations can come to an agreement or compromise that allows for a treaty between the original participants in this conflict."

"So now that the land grabbing and speculation can be ended for a time, may we resume the process of bringing about peace rather than expanded warfare?"

[Borys]

- A simple question with simple answer to the Nederlands representative. Does the Kingdom of the Nederlands sign the Torres Peace Treaty as it is here and now? A simple "yes" or "no" are enough.

[miketr]

The Iberian ambassador snorts loudly, "That is one of the more meaningless bits of double talk I have heard in some time..."

The Ambassador stands, "Gentlemen and Lady it is with a heavy heart that I must now make the following statement.  The Iberian Empire has received no response to repeated requests for a response from the government of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.  The government of the Kingdom of the Netherlands has repeatedly referred to the Iberian Empire as a hostile power and has taken a hostile stance towards the Iberian Empire.  The current situation is intolerable to my government and as Iberian Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary it is with great regret that I inform this assembly that as of this moment a state of war is now in effect between the Iberian Empire and the Kingdom of the Netherlands."

[Ithekro]

"Would it pain the Ambassador from Iberia greatly if he were to keep his declarations of war for a more appropriate setting than a Peace Conference?  The goal here is to end a war, not start a new one before the first one has ended.  Frustration or no, the purpose to be served here is peace.  If your governement wishes to go to war with the Neatherlands it may be wiser to do so after the result of this conference rather than before.  You may find you have more enemies than you know otherwise."

[miketr]

"My Government has broken off diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of the Netherlands and there Embassies and Consulates located in other nations have refused to respond to my governments messages.  This action while not in the keeping with the spirit this conference was necessary on my government's part. 

Also the Netherlands actions in this conference are one of the Casus Belli for this action on my government's part.  If the Netherlands wanted to avoid adding to the list of its enemies it should perhaps have reconsidered its past actions and continued hostile stance to my nation; to paraphrase 'The Netherlands has made its bed they can sleep in it.'  Declarations of war are not something done at the drop of hat or just withdraw on a whim."
 

[The Rock Doctor]

Eduard Torres frowns.  "I am puzzled that the Dutch delegation appears to lack critical knowledge on such fundamental issues as whether or not it can sell its territorial possessions.  I am intrigued that the Dutch do not consider a verbal contract to be binding.  Finally, I am bemused that the Dutch fail to recognize that their Alliance has fractured; if you seek a joint peace, Sir, I believe it will have to be on terms satisfactory to your former Austrian and Brandenburger allies."

Upon sitting, he then hands a note to one of his delegation, who is seen to fairly run in the direction of the Gran Colombian embassy.

That canal is as an ipso facto-act of aggression. The only real reason for a canal to be built is to allow an enemy at war (and its allies) with the Netherlands easy access between the Indian and pacific oceans.

Speaking out of character, this implies that the New Beleriand and Grand Canals are acts of aggression against Gran Colombia.

[Korpen]

Well the Iberian behaviour is no surprise considering the unrelenting aggression they have show towards the peace loving peoples of the Netherlands. First they were in a treaty with the Swiss, and then took offence when the Netherlands pointed that out to them. As a result of this the Netherlands started negotiations on limitation of Iberian shipping of materials that might end up being used to outfit Swiss troops and ships, as soon as those negotiations started Iberia simply walked out on them and declared that they rather have everything sail 4000nm longer then talk about the issue. An attitude that simply made no sense to the Netherlands, but we felt they if the wanted to inconvenience themselves they were free to do so. After that we have seen one hostile and aggressive action after another from Iberia, closing ports to Dutch trader and merchants, supporting and aiding Swiss warships in the Atlantic (with the result of hundreds killed, including a large number of sailors and citizens from both the UNK and France). In all this time the Netherlands have shown restraints and not lowered ourselves to the Iberian level in a game of tit-for-tat. It is quite obvious why Iberian and New Switzerland are so close friends, like children play alike.

Eduard Torres frowns.  "I am puzzled that the Dutch delegation appears to lack critical knowledge on such fundamental issues as whether or not it can sell its territorial possessions.  I am intrigued that the Dutch do not consider a verbal contract to be binding.  Finally, I am bemused that the Dutch fail to recognize that their Alliance has fractured; if you seek a joint peace, Sir, I believe it will have to be on terms satisfactory to your former Austrian and Brandenburger allies."

Upon sitting, he then hands a note to one of his delegation, who is seen to fairly run in the direction of the Gran Colombian embassy.

OOC:
The main reason for my phrasing was that I realise (I hoped I would have time to do it last week, but alas, it was not to be :( ) that there is no way I will have the time and peace of mind to write down the paperwork that I want to be involved in any major territory transferee over the next few weeks IRL, so I make a suggestion that could allow that rest to move forward.

That canal is as an ipso facto-act of aggression. The only real reason for a canal to be built is to allow an enemy at war (and its allies) with the Netherlands easy access between the Indian and pacific oceans.

Speaking out of character, this implies that the New Beleriand and Grand Canals are acts of aggression against Gran Colombia.

Different situations, the Kra canal is a shortcut of about 500nm at best, and the alternative passages are free to travel. The shortcuts offered by the American canals are on the scale of several thousands on Nm, and there are no free passages. This creates economic reason that simply do no exist in asia.

[Borys]

The Nederlands signed the Torres Peace with one last minute minor change involving compensation.