The Mithlond Conference, July 1908

[Borys]

"The bulk of Swiss forces can stand down as soon as a week's time. For some lone raiders it might take longer, but at least 95% of our forces can stand down by August 1st."

Same with Habsburg and Hohenzollern units.
Evacuation of Tasmania will be swift - end of August is a very conservative date. That of North Australia will take longer - but by end of September Habsburg units should be gone.
Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Tanthalas is generally correct, although I'm not just looking out for the French.  Were that the case, I'd have stopped by now, as GC and France aren't seeing eye to eye on this.

There's also concern on my part that international diplomacy will turn into mob rule if we start pretending that diplomacy means nothing when certain parties are involved.  Yes, the Swiss have a bad reputation; if neutral parties extort them out of their diplomatic accomplishments, why should they bother to take the high road in the future?  Why should anybody?

I understand that there's wishful thinking about making the NEI an independent state.  This is a convenient answer from an out-of-character perspective, but does not work in-character; you can not turn a colony into a country overnight.  The much of the bureaucracy doesn't exist, and the people aren't trained to do it.

So NEI is going to end up in the hands of one or more PC nations, and now we're jockeying to see who it's going to be.

[P3D]

Note: There WILL be some Moderatori Ex Machina events in the remainder of the year.
Please do not involve yourself too much in any secret negotiations until the moderators decide on how to go further, because there's a big chance that the moderator intervention will interfere with other conflicting plans in general.

[Tanthalas]

^.^ no problem remember i am borderd by 3 mods, so I kind of have to listen to them =P

[miketr]

Very well... should I send in my military orders then or wait?  I could be attacking the Netherlands on my own, in the land grab race, etc...  My walking out of the conference was to be a first step to declaring war on the Netherlands but the sale wrecked that.  

Michael

[Carthaginian]

Mosby rises to speak:

"Yes, the CSA does not wish to see the East Indies turned over to the Swiss. Being that the Swiss started a war of aggression, they should be punished... not rewarded. It is not our desire to cause greater conflict in the world; we'd rather prefer it if cooler and wiser heads already involved in this matter- the Dutch and Swiss- could reach a peace agreement which fits the situation.

The Swiss did not ask for the East Indies.
The Dutch do not want them.
Why not, then, allow them to decide for themselves?

The CSA supports the founding of an independent State for the peoples of the region, supported by the international community at large. Will this take time? Yes, even with a cohesive identity already in place and distinct geographic borders already defined, the transition from 'people' to 'Polis' takes time and effort.

What it takes first, though, it the right to choose whether or not such transition is DESIRED. The Confederate States of America asks it's allies to consider this- an open vote for nationhood among the East Indies to be held in 2nd/1909 (plenty of prep time to get things right). At the end of this time, the territory currently under dispute will be allowed to decide it's own fate- for better or worse. They may choose to be annexed by Switzerland, retained by the Dutch, claim protectorate status under a neutral party a- truly neutral one, this ruling the CSA out as we had involvements with both sides- or claim their own independence.

After that vote, the international community will abide by it's results without question.

Is this a tolerable solution?"

[Borys]

Przewalski:
- Excellent idea by the CSA delegate!
- I motion for France, Orange and the Riddermark to send a joint force to protect the Natives.

[miketr]

Is this a tolerable solution?"

No as the one thing this crisis should show above all else is that there is no "international community" to provide the security for such an idea.  Several nations are on the record as stating they will not be party to such broad agreements, at least one nation will not make any peace under any circumstances short of the other there enemies total annihilation, several other nations are willing to use force for there own interest.

Being honest Iberia is among the later.   Also being honest several nations have issue with us not treating the Swiss as scum and confuse this with love for them.  There is no alliance between New Switzerland and Iberia.  We will not fight for there interests but we will fight for and defend our own.  If our interests are threatened we will do what is necessary.  Several nations have tried to freeze Iberia out if they think we will accept any agreement that radically alters our security situation without our input said nations do so at there peril.  In short our honor has been affronted and our patients as at an end. 
 

[Carthaginian]

"What is the insult to Iberia's honor, sir?
What affront?
I know of none delivered by my government.

The fact that this conference is talking rather than not is proof that an 'international community' does still exist- and that many nations are willing to work together for a common goal.

My nation stands to gain nothing from an independent East Indies, nothing.
How often has the Confederate Navy sailed from our ports other than to patrol the coasts of our own country? How often were we enticed by promises- mostly Swiss, recently- of great rewards for our efforts in combat and we stood by peacefully?

No, we desire to see gain for ALL nations... and that means the East Indies must be given a chance to treat with all nations on equal terms."

[Ithekro]

"I would point out to Mr. Mosby that goverments do not form overnight.  Such a radical action, if one wishes it to be stable and able to interact with the world, time is required to trains and form said government.  I don't have knowledge of the currect Dutch colonial governement practise, but I don't imagine that they have a lot of local rule at this point in time.  If they do, then perhaps a move such as what Mr. Mosby suggests is possible.  Otherwise it will take up to a generation for the government to form and become stable."

[Borys]

So move in for that generation ...

[Carthaginian]

"I would point out to Mr. Mosby that goverments do not form overnight.  Such a radical action, if one wishes it to be stable and able to interact with the world, time is required to trains and form said government.  I don't have knowledge of the currect Dutch colonial governement practise, but I don't imagine that they have a lot of local rule at this point in time.  If they do, then perhaps a move such as what Mr. Mosby suggests is possible.  Otherwise it will take up to a generation for the government to form and become stable."

Mr. Mosby thinks this is precisely why we should get a move on.

Realistically, there must be a fairly stable structure in place already. The 'no infrastructure' excuse is just that... an EXCUSE. 'Colonial' infrastructure has, several times in history, lead to national governmental infrastructure within 20 years.

Yes, it'll take a generation; that's a given.

But it can be done.

And in this case, I think it SHOULD.

[Borys]

Przewalski:
- the Natives have been ruling themsleves in one way or another for hunderds of years. If nobody makes the mistake of forcing various tribes to live together, without holding a Big Stick to bash the brains of the first cacique with visions of lording over the other darkies, the locals will be fine. Here a sultan, here a raja, here a Voice of God or whatever ...

[P3D]

"It was not the Indonesians ruling themselves for hundreds of years. All the different natives the Dutch were ruling over different islands and parts of islands had their own, albeit primitive, government. It was Atjeh, sundry Malay states, Java, Bali, Flores, Sombawa Sultanate ruling itself and the neighboring islands not a unified Indonesian Empire. And then there is no mention of the ethnic and religious differences, even within single islands themselves. The only thing bringing some illusion of unity is being ruled from Hague."

[Carthaginian]

". It was Atjeh, sundry Malay states, Java, Bali, Flores, Sombawa Sultanate ruling itself and the neighboring islands not a unified Indonesian Empire. ."

"Then allow each of these bodies to vote among themselves.
Odds are, many will relish the chance to throw off any government but their own. They could also, having being conquered as seperate entities in the past, see the good in working togeather to preserve their newfound freedom.

Stranger things have happened."