Iberian Torpedo Boat

[Ithekro]

That noted, one must remember the stories from WWII destroyers, or more specificially the flush-deck 4 pipers from the first world war that operated in the second war.  The ships were uncomfortable and pitched a lot, and those were larger that the ships we are using.

[Desertfox]

I understand the weather problem perfectly, I have nothing to say about that. Course weather that bad would have affected the cruiser too, especially the gunnery of her new crew. Plus I made it clear that the only reason the DDs would not attack during that campaign would be due to weather, so why where they there in the first place?


How does this look? I actualy like this design and might build a few of them myself.

M-1 , New Switzerland Destroyer laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   397 t light; 417 t standard; 455 t normal; 486 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   230.00 ft / 230.00 ft x 22.00 ft x 7.00 ft (normal load)
   70.10 m / 70.10 m x 6.71 m  x 2.13 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft
   Weight of broadside 66 lbs / 30 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 270
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,261 shp / 6,908 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 70 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   49 - 64

Cost:
   £0.053 million / $0.212 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 230 tons, 50.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 143 tons, 31.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 58 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     138 lbs / 63 Kg = 4.3 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 10.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,228 Square feet or 300 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 46 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 108 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.55
      - Longitudinal: 2.15
      - Overall: 0.63
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[miketr]

I have created a 500 ton design to the same general idea and design just some minor changes in hull form and draft really.

All coal, 75mm guns, 1.2 seakeeping and same general speed 27 knots.

So for 100 tons I get 2 more 75's, 2 more torps and 800 mile more range.  The 400 ton design just doesn't seam worth it.

The seakeeping is the breaking point.  From what I have read in the recent fighting TB's have been very effective but the low seakeeping designs have been punished.  All my past and current designs are 1.0 seakeeping my fear is that the war as shown this to be in error.  I am really torn on what to do here...

Thanks for peoples thoughts.

Michael
 

TB-1909-M, Iberia Torpedo Boat laid down 1909

Displacement:
   500 t light; 518 t standard; 559 t normal; 592 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   213.00 ft / 210.00 ft x 21.00 ft x 8.70 ft (normal load)
   64.92 m / 64.01 m x 6.40 m  x 2.65 m

Armament:
      3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in one mount, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward, 2 raised guns
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,180 shp / 9,087 Kw = 27.26 kts
   Range 1,800nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 74 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   56 - 74

Cost:
   £0.063 million / $0.254 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 293 tons, 52.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 182 tons, 32.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 59 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     167 lbs / 76 Kg = 13.0 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.78 ft / 3.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,965 Square feet or 275 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 44 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 110 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 6.33
      - Overall: 0.65
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

Designs of this era are not perfect, they just are.  I might note that a torpedo boat really doesn't need any real gun power.  Her job is to place torpedoes into things, not slug it out with other torpedo craft.  That is what destroyers and torpedo-gunboats are for.

As for the DDs verse a cruiser...when was that again?  Which ships and where?  I supsect it was due either to orders, or they were all that was avalible to intercept the cruiser that day/night.  But I don't remember which action is being recalled, so I cannot say for sure like I can with Anchorage.

[miketr]

It wasn't a specific event / battle but rather the course of the war over all.  Here is an update of my 750 ton design, to the same idea all coal and 1.2 sea keeping.  It basicly lost 2 knots of speed but gained 600 nm range, 2 50mm guns and of course the 1.2 seakeeping.

Michael

TB-1909, Iberia Torpedo Boat laid down 1909

Displacement:
   748 t light; 787 t standard; 894 t normal; 979 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   250.00 ft / 250.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   76.20 m / 76.20 m x 7.62 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 121 lbs / 55 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,500 shp / 12,309 Kw = 28.19 kts
   Range 3,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 192 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0.104 million / $0.415 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 1.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 463 tons, 51.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 236 tons, 26.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 146 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 23 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     207 lbs / 94 Kg = 5.9 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.455
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m (11.07 ft / 3.37 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Stern:      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.82 ft / 3.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,003 Square feet or 372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 50 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 121 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 3.32
      - Overall: 0.60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, 8 torpedos (4 in tube and 4 reloads) and 7 tons construction reserve.

[Desertfox]

Ithekro, this is the engagement in question, the Swiss DDs are Fishers.

Jan 8: Two DKB KKs (Vineta, Gazelle) picketing possible approach lines detects Swiss forces. Beaufort 6.

Swiss forces are in three groups.  2x4 Fisher DDs and the rest. Vineta pursues one group, being both stronger and faster in the weather, hitting one DD at the funnels, and slowing her down. The ship is slowly pounded into pieces, and turns to launch its torpedoes on Vineta, but miss the cruiser steaming at 27kts. After another hour, Vineta catches up with the rest, sinking the other three.

[The Rock Doctor]

Could we leave the post-battle analyses to another thread?

Generally speaking, I don't care for the inclusion of reloads for above-deck fish in this era.  It's ahistorical.  But if there are some reloads, I'd suggest weight needs to be set aside for reloading gear as well as the fish themselves.

Otherwise, Mike, I think that's a very nicely balanced, capable boat.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I've seen models of the Kaiserliche Marine B97 (1350 tonnes light) and of the G101 (1100 tonnes light) with reloads - at least one torpedo if not two,  on the deck. By the looks of it reloading would be by hand.
I have a feeling the first fleet with reloading gear on anything smaller than a cruiser was introduced by the Japanese in the 1930s. On vessels over 1500 tonnes light.

Borys

[miketr]

OK to address the reload issue...  The pair of single tubes would be in the bow area and only limited transverse so only 5 torps on a broadside.

Michael

TB-1909, Iberia Torpedo Boat laid down 1909

Displacement:
   748 t light; 787 t standard; 894 t normal; 979 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   250.00 ft / 250.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   76.20 m / 76.20 m x 7.62 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 121 lbs / 55 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   6 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,500 shp / 12,309 Kw = 28.19 kts
   Range 3,600nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 192 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   81 - 106

Cost:
   £0.104 million / $0.415 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 15 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 10 tons, 1.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 10 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 464 tons, 51.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 238 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 146 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 21 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     197 lbs / 90 Kg = 5.6 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 86 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.455
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m (11.07 ft / 3.37 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Stern:      11.07 ft / 3.37 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.94 ft / 3.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 41.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,003 Square feet or 372 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 50 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 120 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 3.42
      - Overall: 0.60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Short range radio 10 tons, Six 20" torpedos (2x2 & 2x1) 6 tons and 5 tons construction reserve

[miketr]

OK now ditching the 1.2 seakeeping I get this...

Which I think is more of what I have in mind.  It can't take rough weather but I can build 5 of these for 2 of the 750 ton design.  So I can go for a high low mix.

Michael

TB-1909-S, Iberia Torpedo Boat laid down 1909

Displacement:
   303 t light; 314 t standard; 331 t normal; 345 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   201.76 ft / 200.00 ft x 20.00 ft x 7.25 ft (normal load)
   61.50 m / 60.96 m x 6.10 m  x 2.21 m

Armament:
      1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      2 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount
   Weight of broadside 20 lbs / 9 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,001 shp / 5,969 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 31 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   38 - 50

Cost:
   £0.038 million / $0.150 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3 tons, 0.8 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 1.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 177 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 107 tons, 32.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 28 tons, 8.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 4.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     93 lbs / 42 Kg = 7.2 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.75 ft / 2.97 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.75 ft / 2.97 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.75 ft / 2.97 m
      - Stern:      9.75 ft / 2.97 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.77 ft / 2.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 183.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 45.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,462 Square feet or 229 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 40 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 95 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 3.17
      - Overall: 0.60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Short range radio 10 tons and Four 20" torpedos (2x2) 4 tons

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The thought of 12 strong flotillas of these girls stationed at Ceuta, Tanger, Algeciras and Cadiz is ... interesting ...

I do not like the reloads, though. On such small boats, doing it by hand ... these boats can almost get back to port, reload and get back to sea than manhandle a 20 foot long, over a tonne, sausage about the deck into a tube.
Borys

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Do these boat look as if they had space for reloads? And moving them about?
http://freenet-homepage.de/kriegsmarine/huszar_klasse.htm

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Drop the realoads- they are just more fireworks when you get hit.

Other than that, I love them all.
Does appear that cost-effectiveness will be in vouge in this generation of destroyers.

[miketr]

The latest design dropped the reloads I thought... looks again... yup gone...   Will have to see where we are at when the Pacific war ends...  So local defense squadrons of 300 ton boats at the straights, Philippines and Brazil with a DD/GTB 750 ton boat squadron for the fleet.  Need to build some smaller slipways to in Philippines I think.

Is the war over yet?

Michael

[Borys]

Ahoj!
No, the war is not over yet.

Borys