DD's

[Desertfox]

No need to lie, Desertfox. That specific battle was in a sea state of 6, where the engine SHP hardly matters determining max speed. The DKB speed advantage was rather like 5-6kts in that sea, as . The DDs could not do more than 21-22kts. After that, the DKB crew just would not miss some live target practice, inexperienced crew or not.

Dropping the speed of said DDs by 2 kts gives them the same seaboat rating as the Cruiser. If their speed drops by 7-8kts, so does the cruiser's. Oh yeah, if the weather was that bad I wonder how the amateur crew of the cruiser managed such good shooting? Speaking of speed advantages, Anchorage had a 4kt advantage against the Austrian KK and the Austrian still managed to escape. Now here it was 4 DDs going separate ways and the cruiser still managed to catch them all?

Just there's no point in building 500t 29kts ships with average (for his class, i.e. abysmal) seakeeping, if 30% the time the weather won't allow you go faster than 24kts.

Then why build DDs at all?

[maddox]

Why build DD's

Because they are cheap. And if used well, devastating.

France on the other side doesn't have any DD's, except the harborqueens, the Fleurus II class.
The reasons my smaller vessels, like the Fleurus III class are a lot slower, to enhance the survivability, habitility and firepower. Like minicruisers.  :)

[Ithekro]

The Austrian cruiser got away because Anchorage couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.  If they had continued the chase they would have run out of ammunition and thus failed their raider mission by spending a good day or so chasing down a single Austian vessel in the Rift.  I rolled for a good number of turns, Anchorage hit rate was less than pathetic.  Her captain made a choice for the mission rather than the useless kill.  Having one of her guns blow up didn't help much either.

[Ithekro]

As far as destroyers and Torpedo Boats go, it depends on your naval style and budget.  TBs are cheap ways to keep Battleships and Armored Cruisers from going near your ports and worry if your forces have a large group of the torpedo carriers nearby at night.  Destroyers are designed to either be larger TBs that can potentially engage and destroyer TBs and other Destroyers, or they are more gun oriented and designed specifically to engage other destroyers and TBs while also being able to fire on cruisers, while also having the torpedoes handy in case they are needed.

Rohan follows the "more heavily gunned" model, not seeing any real effective use of the torpedo until recently (The only torpedoes to do anything during the Anahuac War was sink an Armored Cruiser in port during a surprise attack), thus most of Rohan's TBs and destroyers are armed with small torpedoes or few torpedoes until very recently.  The older TBs and destroyers have fixed mounts, making torpedo runs more difficult (but straight forward or aft in one tubes case) and only one Rohirrim built cruiser mounts torpedoes.  Everything else was deticated to mounting guns that can turn other destroyers and TBs to scrap.

[Desertfox]

Why build DD's

Because they are cheap. And if used well, devastating.

Was a retorical question. ;)

The Austrian cruiser got away because Anchorage couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

I know, was just using her as an example. Now if a veteran cruiser had such problems, now how would a brand new cruiser, with less guns, in bad weather have fared against four smaller more maneuverable oponents?

[Ithekro]

Luck.  Anchorage had very bad luck that day.

[Sachmle]

La Rioja, USA Torpedoboat Destroyer laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   752 t light; 773 t standard; 885 t normal; 975 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   280.00 ft / 280.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 8.50 ft (normal load)
   85.34 m / 85.34 m x 7.62 m  x 2.59 m

Armament:
      1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 32 lbs / 15 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,548 shp / 10,107 Kw = 27.25 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 202 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0.101 million / $0.406 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 511 tons, 57.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 212 tons, 24.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 133 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     203 lbs / 92 Kg = 6.4 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.55
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 9.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.521
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.73 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Forecastle (40 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.60 ft / 3.84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 192.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 72.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,753 Square feet or 442 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 38 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 100 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.95
      - Overall: 0.58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

I'd exchange misc weight for one or two additional 4" gun. You need 14t for the TTs and the W/T.

[Sachmle]

La Rioja, USA Torpedoboat Destroyer laid down 1906 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   743 t light; 767 t standard; 930 t normal; 1,060 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   270.00 ft / 270.00 ft x 25.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
   82.30 m / 82.30 m x 7.62 m  x 3.35 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1906 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 62 lbs / 28 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.75" / 19 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 13,188 shp / 9,838 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 4,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 293 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   83 - 109

Cost:
   £0.107 million / $0.428 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 529 tons, 56.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 186 tons, 20.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 187 tons, 20.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 14 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     184 lbs / 83 Kg = 5.7 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.64
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 8.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.438
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (40 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m (9.00 ft / 2.74 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.40 ft / 3.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,266 Square feet or 396 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 41 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 99 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.46
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily