AC Question

[Sachmle]

Third times the charm?  As Borys correctly pointed out, I was using SS3, so this is SS2.1  I haven't used it as much, so I make no promises.  I also upped the range reduced the 100mm and removed the TT.

1909 AC v3, Gran Columbia Armoured Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   11,723 t light; 12,315 t standard; 13,642 t normal; 14,703 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   525.75 ft / 525.75 ft x 68.08 ft x 24.93 ft (normal load)
   160.25 m / 160.25 m x 20.75 m  x 7.60 m

Armament:
      8 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (4x2 guns), 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (2x2 guns), 198.42lbs / 90.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.78lbs / 38.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 28.66lbs / 13.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.87lbs / 1.30kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,512 lbs / 1,593 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
     0.82 ft / 0.25 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.87" / 200 mm
   3rd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -         0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 50,761 shp / 37,868 Kw = 26.25 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,388 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   630 - 820

Cost:
   £1.162 million / $4.650 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 477 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 4,067 tons, 29.8 %
      - Belts: 2,195 tons, 16.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,057 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 718 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 97 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,513 tons, 18.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,606 tons, 33.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,919 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,492 lbs / 6,574 Kg = 65.1 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   24.28 ft / 7.40 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (45 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.37 ft / 5.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,631 Square feet or 2,288 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 590 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

Looks promising - can you post or PM the entire file?

[Tanthalas]

Half the ss file is missing man.

[Earl822]

Here is a hard hitting idea, nice to sink other peoples 2nd & 3rd class Cruisers

1909 AC, GC Armoured Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   11,319 t light; 11,947 t standard; 13,898 t normal; 15,458 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.70 ft / 550.00 ft x 67.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   169.68 m / 167.64 m x 20.42 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (3x2 guns), 440.92lbs / 200.00kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      12 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,054 lbs / 1,839 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 145
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   1.50" / 38 mm   225.00 ft / 68.58 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   325.00 ft / 99.06 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.50" / 216 mm   4.50" / 114 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,550 shp / 36,218 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,511 tons

Complement:
   639 - 831

Cost:
   £1.119 million / $4.475 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 492 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 3,771 tons, 27.1 %
      - Belts: 1,949 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 745 tons, 5.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 952 tons, 6.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,207 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,598 tons, 33.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,579 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,646 lbs / 7,551 Kg = 39.5 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.43 ft / 5.62 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,717 Square feet or 2,389 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

Sorry, I fixed the post.  Not quite sure what happened.

[Carthaginian]

Earl, you got UNCOMFORTABLY close to a projected medium AC that I had planned with that one.
Back to the drawing board for something unique. ;)

[Ithekro]

I'd almost say this is close to the current (internal) debate with the Marshals of the Mark in terms of what type of larger cruisers to build:  the 9" armed Combat Cruisers or the 7.5" armed Belted Cruisers.  The winner seems to be the Belted Cruisers as they are faster while still being armed to deal with other cruisers, but also being lightly armed enough to encourage commanding officers to not engage capital ships and battlecruisers.  The Combat Cruisers of the Mark are likely to be replaced by the Battlecruisers.  Rohan may build one more of its 12x9" armed Combat Cruisers to complete an operational division with the faster Valandil instead of operating her with the Battlecruisers (like Blucher was forced into doing to her death at Dogger Bank).

The 9" gun cruisers can hurt capital ships and Battlecruisers, but unless they have numbers on their side or capital ships to take the incoming fire, they are "easy" targets for capital ship guns (as seem iin the one major battle between the Rohirrim and the Anahuac, where Rohan lost one battleships, seven Armored Cruisers (Armored, Combat, and Belted), three protected cruisers, and two destroyers, while the Anahuac lost nine Armored Cruisers, six Battleships (one was actually captured and is now in service with Brandenburg), and four torpedo boats.  Almost all of this was to heavy gunfire with only the lighter ships being lost to quickfire and medium secondary guns.  Everything else was 7.5" fire and up (mostly 9" and 12" for Rohan).  A good broadside from a 9" cruiser will hurt a pre-dreadnought battleship.  However as we get into the dreadnought and super-dreadnought era, such broadsides will be less and less effective as the thickness and quality of the battleship's armor increases, as well and the combat ranges thanks to fire control.

[The Rock Doctor]

Something smaller - the pre-Exeter I referred to earlier.  Useful for smooshing lighter cruisers, but not up to dancing with an AC.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1909

Displacement:
   7,319 t light; 7,621 t standard; 8,650 t normal; 9,473 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   535.02 ft / 531.50 ft x 59.06 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   163.08 m / 162.00 m x 18.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      6 - 7.64" / 194 mm guns (3x2 guns), 222.78lbs / 101.05kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading anti-zeppelin gun in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
      4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.17lbs / 1.44kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,502 lbs / 681 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 18.0" / 457 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   345.47 ft / 105.30 m   9.22 ft / 2.81 m
   Ends:   1.18" / 30 mm   185.99 ft / 56.69 m   9.22 ft / 2.81 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   345.47 ft / 105.30 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.92" / 125 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.92" / 125 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -         0.98" / 25 mm
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -         0.98" / 25 mm
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 42,000 shp / 31,332 Kw = 27.13 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 1,852 tons)

Complement:
   448 - 583

Cost:
   £0.705 million / $2.820 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 188 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1,806 tons, 20.9 %
      - Belts: 830 tons, 9.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 337 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 604 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2,079 tons, 24.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,131 tons, 36.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,331 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 115 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,979 lbs / 4,526 Kg = 44.8 x 7.6 " / 194 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.01 ft / 6.10 m (12.14 ft / 3.70 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.14 ft / 3.70 m
      - Stern:      12.14 ft / 3.70 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,724 Square feet or 1,925 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 482 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.20
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd almost say this is close to the current (internal) debate with the Marshals of the Mark in terms of what type of larger cruisers to build

Evidently a few of us are having this struggle.  I'm starting to think that I should simply pick a position for GC to choose, whether I'm necessarily convinced by it or not.

[P3D]

As everyone is limited in BP, one must select whether to build heavy or armored cruisers, BCs or fast BBs. Orange will build heavy ACs and fast battleships, not BCs or small CAs, but it has the geostrategically most secure position of all major powers.

A 6x8" gunned ship won't worth much alone, as two 6"-gunned ship has a reasonable chance against the paltry RoF of 6 slow-firing guns. Most ACs with over 6" armor won't have to think about a second whether to engage - and unlike them, AGS had the disadvantage of having marginal armor (3-6") against the Exeter.

[Carthaginian]

The point of building the 6x8" cruiser is to make a ship that can function alone in some situations, but be produced in sufficient quantity to not have to operate alone when faced with superior firepower. I'd rather have two 6x7.5" cruisers costing 14 BP/$14 operating in tandem than a single 10x7.5" costing cruiser costing 12 BP/$12 operating alone, if the two were equal in armor protection. In peacetime, the two ships could cover more area; in wartime they could be teamed togeather for superior firepower. Also, two targets are always harder to kill than one; one ca always do somethnig drastic to help the other escape if it looks like both might be lost.

I think the CSA will go with the 'mid-size' AC for the most part; whether I favor firepower or speed is yet to be seen though. Since my AC's will mostly be for long-range patrols in the calmer parts of the Atlantic and Pacific, I'm thinking about trading seakeeping for other things.

[Tanthalas]

I think you all saw where i stand on the topic.  Im building 6x10" cruisers which while not that fast (21 kts atm) do have room to grow.  During wartime I expect them to operate in pairs, or as part of a larger cruiser group. 

[swamphen]

The DKB was planning on concentrating on large ACs/small BCs. Of course the plan has been completely cocked-hatted by now; we need everything.

[Walter]

DKB needs everything since they have now got (almost) nothing... courtesy of New Switzerland. ;D