Homemade BB

[Sachmle]

...and with the completion of the new enlarged slip at Puerto Militar the Congreso de la Nación approved funding for the first home grown battleship.  To be named in commemoration of the First Government Junta it will be called Veinticinco de Mayo.  If the design proves successful and is deemed necessary a second may be funded at a later date and would be named Nueve de Julio in rememberance of Argentine independance from Spain.

EPS Veinticinco de Mayo, USA Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,241 t light; 12,904 t standard; 14,475 t normal; 15,731 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   434.00 ft / 434.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
   132.28 m / 132.28 m x 21.95 m  x 7.16 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      14 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6,468 lbs / 2,934 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   290.00 ft / 88.39 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   144.00 ft / 43.89 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 17,247 shp / 12,866 Kw = 19.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,827 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   659 - 857

Cost:
   £1.330 million / $5.320 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 834 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 5,464 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 3,122 tons, 21.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,270 tons, 8.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 918 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 154 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,437 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,456 tons, 30.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,234 tons, 15.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,136 lbs / 8,227 Kg = 21.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.40

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.690
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.03 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 36
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.20 ft / 4.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,821 Square feet or 2,306 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.74
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nice. Maybe trade a part of stability for improved firing platform. Chaging the trim to achieve 60% fire platform should not lead to loss of stability reserve.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Also, I'd advise trading some deck armor for a bit more speed.
Plunging fire isn't a big danger for a few more years... but you might want a touch more speed- at least 19+ knots.

[Desertfox]

*Blink* :o

She's almost a sister ship to United States!


NSS United States

United States class, New Switzerland Battleship laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   12,409 t light; 13,192 t standard; 15,550 t normal; 17,436 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   550.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 24.80 ft (normal load)
   167.64 m / 167.64 m x 21.34 m  x 7.56 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 900.00lbs / 408.23kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      10 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6,812 lbs / 3,090 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   310.00 ft / 94.49 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 67 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 23,141 shp / 17,263 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 15,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,244 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   696 - 905

Cost:
   £1.287 million / $5.149 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 824 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 4,937 tons, 31.8 %
      - Belts: 2,080 tons, 13.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,271 tons, 8.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,519 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 67 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,146 tons, 7.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,351 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,141 tons, 20.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,583 lbs / 9,790 Kg = 25.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.48 ft / 4.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,378 Square feet or 2,543 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 654 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

There's not much to shave from 2" deck armor. I'd try to get one more knots, just lengthen the ship.

The comparison with the USS United States is not really valid, this ship is a mere 100' shorter, and its side armor coverage is adequate, unlike the other.

[Sachmle]

Redraft alert:
More speed + redesigned secondaries, little heavier

EPS Veinticinco de Mayo, USA Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,486 t light; 13,265 t standard; 14,850 t normal; 16,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   432.00 ft / 432.00 ft x 68.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   131.67 m / 131.67 m x 20.73 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns in single mounts, 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
      4 - 2.91" / 74.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 8,248 lbs / 3,741 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   285.00 ft / 86.87 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   147.00 ft / 44.81 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   285.00 ft / 86.87 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 17,448 shp / 13,016 Kw = 19.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,853 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   672 - 874

Cost:
   £1.527 million / $6.108 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,055 tons, 7.1 %
   Armour: 5,429 tons, 36.6 %
      - Belts: 3,096 tons, 20.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,300 tons, 8.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 877 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 156 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,454 tons, 9.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,477 tons, 30.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,364 tons, 15.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,301 lbs / 6,941 Kg = 17.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.708
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.20 ft / 4.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 97.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,708 Square feet or 2,203 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.81
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

8" is not really optimal for casemate, they'd have the same ROF as the main guns, with no hope to hit anything fast maneuvering, or generally anything past the harbor breakwaters. Block coefficient also getting a bit high.

Check my ORNS Whitwatersrand design here:
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=186.3

Throw out some luxury stuff (TB bulkheads) thin down armor and you get a nice fast-ish BB with 6x12" and 20kts on 13000t.

[Desertfox]

Or you could buy the design for United States...drop a knot and an inch of deck armor and use that for extra side armor.

[Borys]

The sides of the USA ship have better protection that yours has, Fox.
You have 10 feet above the wartline protected by armour, with some 5 feet bare.
Whereas the Vintecinco de Maio has all 16 feet of freeboard under armour.
8 inches upper belt and 10 inches barbette - that' much better than your 11 inch barbettes behind 5 inch upper belt - or sheet steel ...

Borys

[P3D]

The United States design uses 1909 turbines.

[Desertfox]

Despite that, US survived the worst the enemy threw at it. Swiss battleship sailors swear by the Phoenix Iron Works, after seeing enemy 12" shells just bounce of the armor.

The United States design uses 1909 turbines.

Which would be included in any design package. NS is generous.

[Sachmle]

Thanks DF, but the whole point is this one's homemade.

With 1909 turbines increased speed and still had room to increase belt armor again ;D and shaved 350tons

Veinticinco de Mayo, USA Battleship laid down 1905 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   12,549 t light; 13,211 t standard; 14,500 t normal; 15,531 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   435.00 ft / 435.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   132.59 m / 132.59 m x 21.95 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6,444 lbs / 2,923 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   155.00 ft / 47.24 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -         4.00" / 102 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 26,678 shp / 19,902 Kw = 21.25 kts
   Range 8,250nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,321 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   659 - 858

Cost:
   £1.323 million / $5.293 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 830 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 5,753 tons, 39.7 %
      - Belts: 3,335 tons, 23.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,356 tons, 9.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 908 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 154 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,334 tons, 9.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,512 tons, 31.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,951 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,088 lbs / 7,751 Kg = 19.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 16.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.675
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.86 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.20 ft / 4.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,549 Square feet or 2,281 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 636 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.72
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[P3D]

If the ship is laid down in 1905, then NO Swiss turbines are available, stick with the 1905 ones. Also, it is highly doubtful that the Swiss would be able to deliver those turbines with the current naval blockade against them.

[Tanthalas]

If the ship is laid down in 1905, then NO Swiss turbines are available, stick with the 1905 ones. Also, it is highly doubtful that the Swiss would be able to deliver those turbines with the current naval blockade against them.

it has to be 1905 turbines.  and oh they could they would just have to have a true neutral flag carrier transport them... like the french, come on who would atack the french

[Desertfox]

...the Swiss? ;) No if you want your shipment to arrive safetly you need to contract RPS (Rohan Parcel Service)  ;D