Homemade BB

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Hmm, maybe a solution for the USA would be the OTL US approach.
No distant interests, a purely self defence fleet. The enemy must come to it.
Thus not so much need for neither range nor speed.
4000 at 10 knots, 18-19 knots. Saved tonnage either goes on armour, or build 4 instead of 3?

Borys

[maddox]

If the ship is laid down in 1905, then NO Swiss turbines are available, stick with the 1905 ones. Also, it is highly doubtful that the Swiss would be able to deliver those turbines with the current naval blockade against them.

it has to be 1905 turbines.  and oh they could they would just have to have a true neutral flag carrier transport them... like the french, come on who would atack the french

Please do.  France only has lost a few ships to New Switserland

[Ithekro]

Local defence fleet sounds more in style with the area.  They will need to be fairly good seaboats if they plan on going around the Horn often.  Unless the US has issues with counties that are farther away for some reason.

[Tanthalas]

Looking at the map (was just trying to update it a tad) it is quite posible that USA would have good relations with me (Italia), Brandenburg, Austria Hungery, and Iberia.  maybee you want to look over the tech trees for all of us and see if you want some of your ships were built there.  For Example in 1905 i was the only one with tripple turrets, and 1000 ton destroyers. Up till 1908 feal at liberty to use my ship yards, after that though talk to me first lol the one you need may be in use.

[Desertfox]

Actually I would belive the exact oposite, relations between the USA and the Imperialistic Austria/DKB wouldn't be the best in the world.

[Ithekro]

Brazil is one of those weird places.

Not all that long ago it was under French rule (bought/bullied/stolen from Portugal).  Then following the Rohan-Anahuac War, Franch granted a small area of the jungle for the surviving royal line of the Anahuac and the Followers of the Eye (of Sauron)/  This group's religious behavior ran rampant in Brazil and was eventually noticed by Rohirrim, Austrian, Columbian, and Brandenburg forces.  The Rohirrim decided to patrol the coastal cities for proof while the Columbians, Austrians, and Brandenburg launched campaigns into the jungle to remove the Anahuac and the Followers of the Eye.  They met with success.  Austria and Brandenburg held on to their landing points and several square miles of land while Columbia managed to acquire provinces from France.

Shortly afterwards, once Spain and Portugal became more or less stable again after the civil war and socialist revolutions, the new Iberia was granted the remainder of Brazil by France, who viewed the whole mess and an embarrassment.

Italy being there was a recent choice but can be viewed as having been there for a time.  But the Iberian, Austrain, and Brandenburg (and Colubian for that matter) holding in Brazil are all new, though having Iberia back may (or may not) be considered a good thing after France leaves.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The several square miles of land add up to OTL France - the Rio Grande do Sul and Parana each are some 270,000km.

Borys

[Sachmle]

I agree on the defence fleet concept to a point. I kind of think along the same lines as the US navy in the early 20th century, I have a goal, I'm going to it, you have to stop me, so my ship are not the fastest, but they can take it and dish it out. At least I hope ;) Anyway, here's an update on Veinticinco de Mayo

Veinticinco de Mayo, USA Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,631 t light; 13,490 t standard; 14,500 t normal; 15,308 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   434.00 ft / 434.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
   132.28 m / 132.28 m x 21.64 m  x 7.16 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 850.00lbs / 385.55kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in all but light seas
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6,572 lbs / 2,981 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   282.00 ft / 85.95 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   152.00 ft / 46.33 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   282.00 ft / 85.95 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.5" / 318 mm   8.50" / 216 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.50" / 318 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 17,291 shp / 12,899 Kw = 19.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,819 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   659 - 858

Cost:
   £1.355 million / $5.422 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 847 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 5,763 tons, 39.7 %
      - Belts: 3,397 tons, 23.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,292 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 915 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 160 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,441 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,459 tons, 30.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,870 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,456 lbs / 7,464 Kg = 19.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.701
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -10.00 ft / -3.05 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m (14.50 ft / 4.42 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Stern:      14.50 ft / 4.42 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.20 ft / 4.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,717 Square feet or 2,296 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 628 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.68
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Tough little bugger :)
Taking her out with artillery won't be easy.

My points:
1 -  upper belt can be cut down to 8,5 feet. As a bonus this makes a quite natural deck height too;

2 - you cannot fire directly ahead, but that is not a big problem;

Borys

[Ithekro]

Easily a match for any of Rohan's older battleships (actually superior in some respects).  Only would fall prey to the 1900+ designs which are still rather few in number:  Freawine (2), and Helm Hammerhand (2 under construction) class battleships plus the Arcadia (2) and Snowmane (1+2 under construction) class battlecruisers.

[Desertfox]

But the lessons form the latest war show that it is not other BBs but rather DDs and TBs which are the main threat to BBs.

I would cut down armor and use savings for more speed and more Anti-TB guns.

[P3D]

I'd restore the 6000nm@10kts endurance.
You could cut barbette armor to 9-10" as the upper belt is pretty thick.
The rule I use is that the effective strength is the thickest plate plus half the thickness of the thinner ones. So 10"+8" is effectively 14".

Raise about half of the 6" casemates to deck level if not all of them. Raised freeboard until midbreak might be a better idea than a flushdeck with raised forecastle.
On the Belt/turret, round the armor thickness to whole inch.
Cut shells per gun to 100-120.
Increase draught by 1-2'.
What Borys suggested.

If you keep a low displacement, you try to shrink the design to fit in a lvl 1 drydock (120m), then you might want to keep the 5000@10 range.

DDs are a threat only if they have nearby bases.

[Ithekro]

If one is making a local defensive fleet, torpedoes from destroyers and torpedo boats is rather small since it will be your own force that has all of those type of forces where the aggressor likely has only battleships and cruisers (especially the imperialist powers that need to travel great distances).  However I would recommend a more useful placement of the secondary battery for these fairly hostile southern waters.  The secondaries may not be as effective as some slighly lighter quikefire guns, but they will devastate any destroyer and torpedo boat in this world (other than maybe the Italian 1,000 ton (light) destroyers) with only a few hits.  However with the 6" your ship will be able to do a fair amount of damage to both cruisers and battleships (the 6" might not be able to penetrate a lot of armor but it will still damage the ship at this era's combat ranges).

[The Rock Doctor]

But the lessons form the latest war show that it is not other BBs but rather DDs and TBs which are the main threat to BBs.

With the design being laid down in 1905, she's liable to be fitting out before the latest war even gets going.  For what is known in 1905, I think it's very sturdy ship.  My only criticism is the high block co-efficient.  Better to increase the dimensions and scale the BC down to ~.65. 

[Carthaginian]

Well, I think the high BC will give her a unique look... much like the 'en echelon' ironclad battleships that the RN built in the late 1800's. Such BC's and speeds are historical, though they were only a short-lived style of ship.