Fleet Tender

[Tanthalas]

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   13,373 t light; 13,789 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 24,969 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   590.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   179.83 m / 179.83 m x 24.38 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (1x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      16 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1908 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 84 lbs / 38 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   173.46 ft / 52.87 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   416.52 ft / 126.96 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   173.46 ft / 52.87 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 45 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 8,053 shp / 6,007 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 26,152nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 11,179 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1,093

Cost:
   £0.571 million / $2.283 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 787 tons, 3.9 %
      - Belts: 770 tons, 3.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 17 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 671 tons, 3.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,905 tons, 24.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,627 tons, 33.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,000 tons, 35.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,167 lbs / 16,405 Kg = 2,679.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.494
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 23 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (35 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m before break)
      - Stern:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.35 ft / 7.12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 50.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,287 Square feet or 2,907 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 217 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 478 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

good or bad

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Quite good.
Now, the criticism :)

1 - armour is unnecessary
2 - four 6" guns are better, plus the 2-4  three inchers; the smaller guns are too small to make an impression on a surfaced submarine, or a dozen pirogues
3 - no turbines here - VTE; one or two screws

[maddox]

2 shaft VTE sounds more logical.

Like Borys says,  5 or 6"  guns can drive off tin cans and pirates, and can worry cruisers.

Twin 3" guns aren't used yet. The "concensus" is atm, that a twin 3" in a deck mount is to slow to follow the intended targets, torpedo boats.  Can be replaced with a single 5 or 6".

Armor doesn't add much to this ship for survivability, this kind of ships gets toughness from loads of internal space. Better use this weight to get the ship lighter in "light ", making it cheaper to build.

Splinter shields on the guns is another matter, and can act as weathershields. Just crew comfort in mind. (decadent France, you know)
Increase stem height to get rid of the wet forward warning.

And, what is the intended area to use this ship for Italy?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The Sun Never Sets Over The Italian Impero Coloniale.

Uruguay, East Africa, Chuvosa Islands (Nuovo Lipari group) - you name it, the Italians are there. If we are not careful the battlefleet of the Regia Marina will be prowling the Pacific!

Borys

[Borys]

Splinter shields on the guns is another matter, and can act as weathershields. Just crew comfort in mind. (decadent France, you know)

May I suggest scented designer sunshades?
Borys

[Tanthalas]

Ahoj!
The Sun Never Sets Over The Italian Impero Coloniale.

Uruguay, East Africa, Chuvosa Islands (Nuovo Lipari group) - you name it, the Italians are there. If we are not careful the battlefleet of the Regia Marina will be prowling the Pacific!

Borys

This is almost true the areas it is necessary for me to deploy to are quite varied.  From the Indian Ocean to the med to the southern Atlantic, my Navy has to be able to operate in a wide Variety of Locations and climates.  This is why I was working on a tender in the first place.  I'll strip the armor and change the guns up a bit raising her more forward shouldn't be to hard either.

[The Rock Doctor]

No additional comments to add except that I'd prefer to see the miscellaneous weight allocations detailed.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Rock - please suggest split between lathe machine, drills, shower faciltiies, laundry washing powder and bleach supplies, rivets, threads, bolts, nails, sheet metal of various thickness, spare ammo, by type and calibre, etc. etc.

Borys

[Tanthalas]

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1908 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   12,981 t light; 13,500 t standard; 19,500 t normal; 24,300 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   580.00 ft / 580.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   176.78 m / 176.78 m x 22.86 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 679 lbs / 308 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,950 ihp / 5,931 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 31,810nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 10,800 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   824 - 1,072

Cost:
   £0.687 million / $2.748 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 85 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 40 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,152 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,704 tons, 24.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,519 tons, 33.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,000 tons, 35.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,580 lbs / 12,510 Kg = 441.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.08 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 24 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (35 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m before break)
      - Stern:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.77 ft / 7.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,602 Square feet or 2,750 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 195 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 465 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.82
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


mark 2, and what all is in the misc weight would depend on what type of operation she is suporting.....  Oh and the twin 3" are anti zep guns ^.^. Figured she should be able to chase a zep off on her own anyway.

[The Rock Doctor]

Rock - please suggest split between lathe machine, drills, shower faciltiies, laundry washing powder and bleach supplies, rivets, threads, bolts, nails, sheet metal of various thickness, spare ammo, by type and calibre, etc. etc.

I'm not trying to be a pain, but:

and what all is in the misc weight would depend on what type of operation she is suporting.....

...isn't appropriate.  Accomodations, medical facilities, coal bunkers, oil tanks, and general cargo are not interchangeable.

[Korpen]

Accomodations, medical facilities, coal bunkers, oil tanks, and general cargo are not interchangeable.

At least accomodations should not really need extra weight, as the cost of those are included in the cost of the freeboard.

[The Rock Doctor]

Crew quarters are - those of passengers, or crews of other vessels, are not.

[Borys]

I'm not trying to be a pain, but:

You are being very successful at being one.
:)
Under present rules, a Small Tender is a floating Type 0 Naval Base, and a Large Tender is a floating Type 1 Naval base.
Do we need to go into more detail?

Borys

[Tanthalas]

Italia FT-1908, Italia Fleet Tender laid down 1908 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   12,981 t light; 13,500 t standard; 19,500 t normal; 24,300 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   580.00 ft / 580.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   176.78 m / 176.78 m x 22.86 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 679 lbs / 308 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,950 ihp / 5,931 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 31,810nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 10,800 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   824 - 1,072

Cost:
   £0.687 million / $2.748 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 85 tons, 0.4 %
   Armour: 40 tons, 0.2 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 40 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,152 tons, 5.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,704 tons, 24.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,519 tons, 33.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 7,000 tons, 35.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,580 lbs / 12,510 Kg = 441.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.08 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 24 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (35 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (35 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m before break)
      - Stern:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.77 ft / 7.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,602 Square feet or 2,750 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 195 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 465 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.82
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

8600 tons coal (from bunker max displacement)
2000 tons Oil (from misc weight)
2000 tons Ammunition Storage (from misc Weight)
1000 tons Food (from misc weight)
1000 tons workshops (from misc weight includes equipment and necessary materials)
990 tons MWR (Morale Welfare & Recreation from misc Weight)
10 tons Marconi (from misc Weight)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Block coefficient: 0.523

Not too fine?

Borys