Triunfante revisited...

[Carthaginian]

I just find myself wondering if Capitan Taylor's first name was 'Andy.'
;)

[Ithekro]

Doubtful.  It is an "irresponsible" ship, named for an irresponsible, but very lucky, destroyer captain.

She is however the "White Elephant" of the Chilean Navy.  Her prime task it to show the flag at important events and fleet reviews, thus keeping the more valuble ships in Chilean waters most of the time (though sometimes the American build "Coastal Defense Battleship" goes on these types of missions instead, but only if it is more local.  Tylor has longer legs.)

[Tanthalas]

san we have a ss report on that... i might want to build one

[Ithekro]

You might be abel to build a low tech version of her.  right now she's a bit powerful in the engine department.  At least for 1908.  (two versions given)


Capitan Tylor

Chilean Heavy Armoured Cruiser laid down 1926 (Wesworld)

Displacement:
16,632 t light; 17,486 t standard; 20,013 t normal; 21,955 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
606.00 ft / 595.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
184.71 m / 181.36 m x 25.91 m x 7.62 m

Armament:
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships
14 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns in single mounts, 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
20 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,019 lbs / 2,277 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.50" / 216 mm 345.50 ft / 105.31 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 345.50 ft / 105.31 m 23.50 ft / 7.16 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.50" / 216 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 8.50" / 216 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm - -
4th: 0.25" / 6 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.50" / 216 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 81,503 shp / 60,801 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 16.50 kts (Bunkerage = 4,549 tons)

Complement:
840 - 1,093

Cost:
£4.976 million / $19.904 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 587 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 5,596 tons, 28.0 %
- Belts: 1,560 tons, 7.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 300 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 1,691 tons, 8.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,908 tons, 9.5 %
- Conning Tower: 135 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,609 tons, 13.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,690 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,381 tons, 16.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,450 lbs / 11,090 Kg = 95.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.554
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.44 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 33.00 ft / 10.06 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 22.83 ft / 6.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
Waterplane Area: 34,384 Square feet or 3,194 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 732 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.06
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such as this one perhaps.


Captain Tylor, USA (Argentina) Heavy Armoured Cruiser laid down 1909

Displacement:
   16,336 t light; 17,161 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 22,191 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   604.00 ft / 595.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   184.10 m / 181.36 m x 25.91 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1909 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      14 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns in single mounts, 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      20 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1909 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,695 lbs / 2,130 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.50" / 216 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   23.50 ft / 7.16 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.50" / 216 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   8.50" / 216 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.50" / 216 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 24.50 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 5,109 tons)

Complement:
   840 - 1,093

Cost:
   £1.401 million / $5.603 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 587 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 5,790 tons, 29.0 %
      - Belts: 1,716 tons, 8.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 339 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 1,693 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,908 tons, 9.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 135 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,400 tons, 12.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,409 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,664 tons, 18.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     27,766 lbs / 12,595 Kg = 108.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.39 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.44 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.35 ft / 6.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,370 Square feet or 3,193 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 145 lbs/sq ft or 709 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.04
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
IMO not to be approached if you're not armed with 11 inch or larger guns.
She'll simply bury you under a storm of 8" shells.

Borys

[Tanthalas]

that thingy is scary... and EXPENSIVE

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Yes, all that gunmetal costs :)
She costs 2/3rds of my battleships currently under construction.

Borys

[Tanthalas]

brings to mind what i was playing with for a fast cruiser.  but i decided she wasnt worth it.

[Ithekro]

Expensive yes. She was designed (in 1926) as a throwback to the armored cruiser line of warships instead of going with the battlecruiser type.  She was intended to be able to combat two "Treaty" Heavy Cruisers at once, thus she has heavy armor and 16 x 8" guns (though not all can engage one target).  She was also intended to be able to engage what was considered the largest cruiser in the world at that time (A Wesworld Iberian ship called El Cid), but aside from rate of fire, the El Cid is superior with larger guns and thicker about as thick armor.  

Tylor's successor, the Capitan Oyama, would mount 9 x 10" guns and have 33+ knots of speed, as well as 4" of deck armor to be able to be a match for El Cid and her 12x9.4" cannons.  Also building more than one Oyama helps since there is only one El Cid.

[Ithekro]

The 1909 version is probably too big for what she does or what anyone here might need.  She can probably be cut down in size and retain her guns.

[Tanthalas]

I realy wonder if there would be a reason to build anything like this, well in the here and now of our time line.

[Borys]

Ahoj!

I think that with a pyramid arangement aft, i.e. 9 turrets, I could try to sell this design to the French ...

Borys

[Ithekro]

Well with fire control likely coming into being I would wager that a ship of this type verses a battlecruiser at range would not be a good idea.  Especially if the battlecruiser can dictate the range.  If it can get in close enough to engage with her rather large 8" battery, then she would give any battlecruiser grief (well any battlecruiser with less than 9" of armor on a large belt anyway).

The 1909 version is quite fast for an armored cruiser and practically matched this eras battlecruisers in speed. 

The 1926 version would be able to keep up with the battlecruisers, but that is a much more powerful and more advanced engine.

Now imagine this with 9" or 10" guns....

[Tanthalas]

RM Gun Farm, Italia Gun Farm laid down 1908 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   14,219 t light; 14,797 t standard; 16,500 t normal; 17,863 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   530.00 ft / 528.00 ft x 80.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   161.54 m / 160.93 m x 24.38 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,812 lbs / 2,183 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   418.49 ft / 127.56 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   109.49 ft / 33.37 m   10.73 ft / 3.27 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   418.49 ft / 127.56 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   418.49 ft / 127.56 m   23.78 ft / 7.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 20,201 ihp / 15,070 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,066 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   727 - 946

Cost:
   £1.413 million / $5.651 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 602 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 4,954 tons, 30.0 %
      - Belts: 2,035 tons, 12.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 368 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,387 tons, 8.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,066 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 98 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2,928 tons, 17.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,676 tons, 34.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,281 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     19,528 lbs / 8,858 Kg = 76.3 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.60 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.73 ft / 5.71 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,821 Square feet or 2,678 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 659 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Borys]

Ahoj!
It is RN = Regia Nave, not RM.

Borys